Suggestions and Feedback

[Rhonya]

I've actually had a -lot- of random RP in the peaks, so I'm still not entirely sure where that comes from. We gave the applicants a choice, to meet us later on, or have them put into the plot somehow and meet them sooner. They choose for themselves if they wanted to come up into the stormpeaks or not. If we'd have to stick around public places always, we can never really do a tribe only plot and just have some proper character development in more 'dire' situations, which was the point of this campaign. But if the majority are not happy with more deep plot that focuses really on how characters would do in real danger, then we won't do such anymore. That's why we have this thread, to hear feedback and go with what most people want to do.

Seeing it's still the simple 'you can't please everyone' thing.

I actually agree with what Makaroth said in his last post mainly, that also with people being distant or on the side, it has to come from two ways. Of course people will always stick a little with the ones they know and really enjoy RPing with, because we all play this game for our own enjoyment as well. I always try to include people in RP, but if someone has been away for a very, very long time they can't really expect for everyone to still know them very well or include them in everything as they would do with a good IC friend.

3 - A tag along initiative, a big one. Invite other guilds to follow the tribe around, and especially randoms, create a large, mobile hub. A "caravan" of sorts, thats follows the tribe. This not only promotes the guild as a whole, and orcish rp... making people consider joining, but also allows for much more random rp and encounters. This is the integration i spoke of.

We've always had this mentality, that people could come visit or join us in things if they wanted to. Though I am somewhat afraid that if we promote this too openly, we'll get Kosh'harg kind of things, and 8 days nearly killed all of the officers because of 120+ people being there. So I'd be a little reluctant to really just invite everyone over for all events and things.

[Revax]

My two cents on this campaign:

I like things like these, when we end up doing something else than what we expected. We were set to go to Northrend on some business, instead we crash high up in the frozen mountains where we all of a sudden have to struggle to survive, we get to test the mettle of our characters in a dire situation and perhaps develop our characters in ways we hadnt given any thought to beforehand. I also like the whole "daily weather conditions" thing we did on the forum, things to keep in mind during daily random RP is very cool. I think you done well Gridish, having had almost sole responsibility to get it done while also dealing with exams and stuff is a difficult thing. Upstart event makers such as Makaroth also did well. I dont have any specific negative criticism about this particular plot or you Gridish, my concerns lie within each orcs "character sheets" and I'll explain one of those things down below.


Some general thoughts that I feel is for all current and future officers/eventmakers (this is something that has been nagging me for years, not due to any one person or guild, but everywhere I have RPd in wow):

Something that I find a lot of people have problems finding a balance in is the character personalities/experience vs. authority thing. Im going to use ORB as the example here for obvious reasons, not least the fact that I was once an officer that struggled with this very issue myself. One of the ORB tenets is "Obey the Alpha", but what does that really mean? That Oathbound Doomhowl has to follow Rrosh-tul Hellbrew's every command? Well, yes, but the tenet does not say anywhere that Doomhowl cant question the order, offer suggestions and alternatives, as long as he does what Hellbrews final decision instructs. Officers and eventmakers have to be prepared for a change of plans and consider the suggestions of their fellow tribes orcs and not just shoo them away just because the new alternative doesnt add with the OOC plan, and on top of that be told off for coming with suggestions (Ive seen this happen, and its wierd). Would Rrosh-tul Hellbrew's actual personality disregard every suggestion he gets, thats one thing, but to throw idea's away just because they werent your own is a no-no, it stunts RP, it makes people feel like they dont have a place here. Doomhowl may just be an oathbound in the tribe, but he is well versed in the ways of the warrior and soldiery, his suggestions should not be easily rejected as long as he ultimately falls in line when he is asked to. This is what caused Hellbrew to challenge Bloodmark all those years ago, because with Bloodmark it was always "my way or the highway", Bloodmark would often take the suggested idea, roll it up, and whack you in the face with it somehow (bear in mind Im talking IC here) and eventually a few of our characters snapped.
Its not fun RP not to be able to play according to your "character sheet". Having said that, every character needs to have a stance on how they deal with authority, and if they are willing to pay the consequences of disobedience, and every officer need to know how much they value their underlings.

Im not always very good at formulating my thoughts into words, but I hope ya'll get what Im trying to say.

[Azolg]

The following post is going to be an observation i've noticed in regards to our current lack of active New Bloods. This isn't an inherit fault of anyone in the guild but is merely a continuation of the Argent Dawn "Butterfly Effect" I've noticed. The idea of this post is to make everyone aware of the things we can do to keep New Bloods in the Tribe.

The Problem
I've been active all over Christmas/New Years as I really had nothing going on which wasn't a problem for me. Days were quiet but that was to be expected in reality and it'd be unreasonable to expect any different. However as we steam into the New Year i'm starting to notice a lack of attendance to the restarting of events, random roleplay and the like. Some of this can explained by our Oathbound members and above that are taking a break from the game, bored of WoD in general or simply have pressing real life matters to attend to; All of which I am totally fine with. Life happens and people head away from the game; not holding that against anyone and i'd be a cruel asshole to do so.

My concerns however are the lack of active New Bloods within the Tribe. All three of my New Bloods I was tutoring have gone inactive (Daxran; MIA 2 Months, Rakhas; MIA Just over 1 Month, Gonkrol; Deleted the character) I cant say why or what has caused them to go inactive sadly. Perhaps it really is the butterfly effect in action, perhaps its the fact they have their own RL issues to deal with. I get that, not everyone has the amount of free time that others do. But usually there have been New Bloods to fill in this gap and keep activity high and keep the Tribe a comfortable size and welcoming place and to keep things going while others naturally take breaks from time to time.

Now im not about to start saying the guild is dying because it surely isn't. But it could spiral that way if we don't get some New Bloods to actively stick around and want to be here. Whats caused me to want to raise awareness of this issue i'm potentially see creep up is that last night I covered Gridish's plot event last night - And the tagalongs we have outnumbered Orcs there (That was me and one other) thus forcing me to cancel and think something else up; the storyline technically isn't mine afterall and I didn't want to change anything in it. And thus I move to a potential solution/point to make.

A Rather Crappy Solution

The Tribe returns back to Razor Hill on the 17th and we will once more be around hubs and other RPers. Now I personally am not involved in creating storyplots or campaigns; I simply help out as and where i'm needed to which I love doing. So i've no idea how long we'll be in Razor Hill for or what kind of storyplot is coming along next but I see this as a real opportunity for all of us, not just the Officer team, as a whole to get some fresh blood in to keep the Tribe trucking along.

I'm sure we'll be around lots of different RP'ers, and so while I know we all do our best to ensure people are welcome into the Tribe; I'd like to ask that everyone take extra attention to making sure we dont alienate New Bloods when it's in our power to avoid it. Lets just make them feel welcome, find out about them and just make them WANT to be here. Even if they're "Butterflies" we might be able to convince them that this is the place they want to be, and this is the cake they want.

I adore this troupe of wandering idiots that im proud to call myself part of; And I'll always be doing my absolute best to keep this Tribe going, improving and just being awesome. Thats all I want at the end of the day.

[Groshnok]

Honestly it's just been how week this expansion has been for RP that's made me lack interest in doing more RP. Had been with the guild for 2 years and was feeling fair burnt out, but the fact that there was very little to go off with the latter part of this expansion I think may have disinterested some others too. I myself would probably return when ye're back to Razor Hill, but I wouldn't worry about newbloods too much. People come and go at that stage all the time, most of the newbloods I've had have never made it to Oathbound.

[Mozrogg]

Right, we're not idiots I think everyone is aware that inactivity is a BIG problem right now for the guild. I am aware that real life is more important than ANYTHING in game, and I will be the first to stand up for people when it comes to having real life issues in the way of their playing time, I for instance work shifts, however when I am online I try to make damn sure that I am there if someone has gone through the process of organising an event for people.

Anyway onto the matter, and I in no way mean for this to sound like a personal attack on anyone, so if it comes across like that I do apologise, I just have to get it off my chest. 

To me  it seems that there are a select few and I mean very few group of people that seem to be the main intiators of RP within the guild, and I don't just mean via the way of creating events, it could be from simply sitting around a campfire and essentially spoon feeding other people RP, without them there, well people would just sit in silence. This is a big problem, I feel we should be doing things to more engage our members, perhaps hand them the spotlight so that they have a chance to shine as opposed to getting lost in some of the bigger ego's of our IC characters. Without these people, no one seems to want to join in on the "lesser" events as it were, or even random RP, and by that I mean when it is not campaign focused. And when for instance, people do show up for random RP and make the effort, it almost feels like a chore to try and drag people to come along with them.

I understand the need for us to build relations with other guilds, parade ourselves out to the server as it were, which is something that bothered me during this feralas event chain in which we had like two orcs representing the guild at times?

I honestly don't think one person can fix this, nor do I have any ideas on how to fix it myself, what I do know is that it needs to be a group effort in which we come together and discuss things, because right now it feels as if people are leaving a sinking ship almost, and personally speaking I have no idea what we're even doing right now in regards to IC, like we were stationed in Durotar at one point and then whisked away to Feralas - on the same night I may add that an event was scheduled for, an event only two people showed up for.

I understand that the officer teams have their weekly meetings and what-not? But I think for at least now it'd be nice if some of that communication was also issued further down the ladder so that we all have some idea of where things are going?

Apologies again if I've come across like an ass, not my intention at all, this also could just be me overreacting but yeah.

[Kozgugore]

I'm not entirely sure what the main problem is that you're trying to point out here. Is it the lack of people joining in/initiating RP (or lesser events)? Is it inactivity overall? Some kind of lack of communication towards members? Or is it the going from one event to another part? All seem to be inherently different 'issues', but it kind of seems like there's one particular matter that triggered you to be upset/worried enough to fire off this post.

Either way, I don't think anyone is blind when it comes to inactivity, but this is not really something one particular individual has in hand, like you point out. Inactivity has slowly started becoming a problem throughout WoD due to the lack of content and people just waiting for new content, with RP not being the deciding factor for people to stick around forever. That of course doesn't excuse the guild's own agenda or lack thereof, but the move to Feralas was very consciously done in order to move the guild to a slightly more populated place for the duration of a particular event. The intention was by no means to have people moving over on Thursday in the middle of Vanara's event already. From the impression I got, it appears people started moving out there on their own accord already. So in that regard, a slight lack of communication seemed to be main issue (although it probably wouldn't have happened if more had been able to show up for the event itself).

I don't think the officer team has anything to hide, so if it's transparency you're asking for, by all means. But I'm personally just not quite sure what you need transparency about, since we've decided to simply move back to Durotar to give random RP a chance in order to not constantly be on the move and campaigning. Having said that, there -is- another campaign coming up led by other guilds, true, but tagging along with other, bigger guilds has always been one of the safer ways to re-initiate member activity again (should they be interested in RP in the first place), so we'll just see what the attendance will be like throughout that week. While I'm finally able to show up again more as of tonight, I don't really get the impression a lot of people left in the plot planning Skype chat for example are still active at all, so you have to kickstart things again from somewhere.

[Vanara]

I think the main problem is the general activity, which is a combination of “core” members so to say that went inactive or have some irl things going on, and not having new people join the guild. We were in feralas for a couple of days now which was rather crowded and then you see guilds that have nearly twenty people around representing their guild, and then you had us which were like mozrogg stated 2-3 people most of the time. This was a good opportunity to show the people there what the guild is about and perhaps make them interested enough to join or make an alt to join. Things like this help greatly in the growth of the guilds roster and possibly activity.

The other thing was is that at least myself got numerous questions from other horde members icly on where the blades would go next, which I could not really answer since it was unknown. It was a bit frustrating to have to reply to them in that way.

As for the part that was mentioned about the attendance regarding non plot events or campaign related things, it seems to be the case that there is only little interest for it. I don’t know whether it’s a case of not wanting to put so much effort into it to create your own rp. Or that people feel that they can’t involve themselves enough in the non-plot events. If we can change that I feel that it would help a good amount already in keeping the activity higher than it is at the moment.

The reason I posted this is because I care for the guild and I want it to be fun for everyone in here.  So if there is something wrong that bothers people we can try and come to a solution for it. It would be a shame to see the guild slowly becoming completely inactive

[Okiba]

I, as it is these days, have little right to criticise the current state of affairs of this guild... But I've been harping on about this particular inevitable problem for a good few months now, its a shame that its getting to this point after so long.

I'll not nudge people to my previous posts but i'll keep this simple.

There are two kinds of guilds on AD, small inactive ones, and Big active ones like the Irontusks, hand of agony and rotgarde etv.

The red blades current format with how it runs things from top to bottom leans it heavily toward the first. So if people, officers, members and the like want the guild to be that, then it should probably be stated clearly. if people want a large, active guild with 10-20 people on every night, then sticking to how things used to be run on DB isn't going to work, ever. On DB the guild got away with it towards the end of its time on that server because orc rp'ers had few options for guilds... here, they have lots.

Unless you have...

-A heftily active Gm
-numerous very active officers
-greater freedom of travel
-go to hubs like orgrimmar to wave the guilds tag and flag, rather than sit in empty razor hill
-interact with other guilds
-ditch the long winded recruitment process (seriously, i know only small, dead guilds do this on Ad)

Your heading for a train wreck.

Sorry again if that was critical, but its just how things are here.

[Rhonya]

The other thing was is that at least myself got numerous questions from other horde members icly on where the blades would go next, which I could not really answer since it was unknown. It was a bit frustrating to have to reply to them in that way.

At least to this part, we couldn't really tell that ourselves either. I mentioned a few times in the chat at least and it was on the calendar that we'd go to Silvermoon/Ghostlands for the RP-pvp campaign, but ICly we didn't have any information of this yet. (because the organisers chose it that way.) That thing is now cancelled at least, but we'll go with the alternative to Darkshore.

What I mainly hear from people (and I talk to many) is that the issue is mainly wow being so boring right now. They don't have the urge to log in at all, and don't find the RP only worth it to pay for a game they otherwise don't enjoy. (And that goes for all RP, not only our guild.)
We had the same 'problem' before WoD came out, because the wait betwene expansions is so long as well.
Wow is on an ever low amount of subs right now, so I'm not surprised after WoD's dissapointment that even more people left.
I'm still of opinion, quality over quantity. You can have all the numbers of people you want, but that won't mean it'll be good RP. I'm happier with maybe only 4-5 people to RP with that I really enjoy, than 20 spamming me playing characters I would normally not really indulge myself with.

Time will tell. We'll keep going, do what we can, but even officers can't do without active members. It's a group effort.

[Okiba]

The other thing was is that at least myself got numerous questions from other horde members icly on where the blades would go next, which I could not really answer since it was unknown. It was a bit frustrating to have to reply to them in that way.

At least to this part, we couldn't really tell that ourselves either. I mentioned a few times in the chat at least and it was on the calendar that we'd go to Silvermoon/Ghostlands for the RP-pvp campaign, but ICly we didn't have any information of this yet. (because the organisers chose it that way.) That thing is now cancelled at least, but we'll go with the alternative to Darkshore.

What I mainly hear from people (and I talk to many) is that the issue is mainly wow being so boring right now. They don't have the urge to log in at all, and don't find the RP only worth it to pay for a game they otherwise don't enjoy. (And that goes for all RP, not only our guild.)
We had the same 'problem' before WoD came out, because the wait betwene expansions is so long as well.
Wow is on an ever low amount of subs right now, so I'm not surprised after WoD's dissapointment that even more people left.
I'm still of opinion, quality over quantity. You can have all the numbers of people you want, but that won't mean it'll be good RP. I'm happier with maybe only 4-5 people to RP with that I really enjoy, than 20 spamming me playing characters I would normally not really indulge myself with.

Time will tell. We'll keep going, do what we can, but even officers can't do without active members. It's a group effort.

You don't get active members by isolating the guild, actively sending it to far flung places, avoiding hubs and maintaining a silly recruitment process. Not here.

[Izeira]

I find myself agreeing with Mozrogg, Vanara and Krogon, I mean I still play WoW and as Horde, but I find myself more focusing on my alts than Izeria because of how things are right now.

[Mozrogg]

I'm not entirely sure what the main problem is that you're trying to point out here. Is it the lack of people joining in/initiating RP (or lesser events)? Is it inactivity overall? Some kind of lack of communication towards members? Or is it the going from one event to another part? All seem to be inherently different 'issues', but it kind of seems like there's one particular matter that triggered you to be upset/worried enough to fire off this post.

Either way, I don't think anyone is blind when it comes to inactivity, but this is not really something one particular individual has in hand, like you point out. Inactivity has slowly started becoming a problem throughout WoD due to the lack of content and people just waiting for new content, with RP not being the deciding factor for people to stick around forever. That of course doesn't excuse the guild's own agenda or lack thereof, but the move to Feralas was very consciously done in order to move the guild to a slightly more populated place for the duration of a particular event. The intention was by no means to have people moving over on Thursday in the middle of Vanara's event already. From the impression I got, it appears people started moving out there on their own accord already. So in that regard, a slight lack of communication seemed to be main issue (although it probably wouldn't have happened if more had been able to show up for the event itself).

I don't think the officer team has anything to hide, so if it's transparency you're asking for, by all means. But I'm personally just not quite sure what you need transparency about, since we've decided to simply move back to Durotar to give random RP a chance in order to not constantly be on the move and campaigning. Having said that, there -is- another campaign coming up led by other guilds, true, but tagging along with other, bigger guilds has always been one of the safer ways to re-initiate member activity again (should they be interested in RP in the first place), so we'll just see what the attendance will be like throughout that week. While I'm finally able to show up again more as of tonight, I don't really get the impression a lot of people left in the plot planning Skype chat for example are still active at all, so you have to kickstart things again from somewhere.

Well that was the point I was trying to make, it's hard to pinpoint the exact root cause but as people have already mentioned it does boil down to inactivity, or at least keeping people engaged. We've had countless new members join and seem to just disappear into the nether, which i understand is probably something to do with the realm itself as there seems to be a lot more "guild jumping" as it were, which as far as I recall was something that hardly ever happened on DB at least. Indeed they are all different issues hence my post was a shot in the dark more than anything to try and get some form of discussion going on the matters.

I fully agree that WoD has hardly been the expansion to inspire people, such promise that quickly dwindled out. The move to Feralas almost felt out of the blue, I believe people began moving there of their own accord was simply down to the fact that there seemed to be nothing going on for us in Durotar. It was put up on the calendar but as far as I recall there was no communication as to why we were going there, and as a guild that seems to pride ourselves on 'realism' when it comes to travelling from point A to point B as opposed to teleporting all around the world it seemed like a second thought.

Never was I even insinuating that you guys had something to hide, or asking for transparency. Simply a bit more communication from ALL members of the guild so that we can all pull in the same direction? As I said, I apologise if it came across as a personal attack because I by no means meant for it to come out that way, I wouldn't be bothering to make this post to try and score points on people, it's simply because I care about the future of the guild.

[Kozgugore]

We've hardly been isolating ourselves, Krogon. If you had kept up with the guild's recent activities (which I wouldn't ask you to do, but you seem so keen on criticizing and judging that you must seem to care for some kind of reason), you'd know we've attended one mass-event over the weekend, and plan to attend another this coming week. Staying in Razor Hill is hardly an isolationist tactic either - it was to get away from the isolation that a campaign of our own brings and closer to Orgrimmar, where people were free to go to for random RP if Razor Hill didn't offer any.

As for going from point A to B all of a sudden Moz, I myself vouched for a faster move to Feralas because the invitation took place on such short term. I would have used Thursday to organize a travel event, but Vanara was unable to move the Wyvern event. So then, the alternative was to either go easy on the long-time traveling process for once (as we have done on some exceptional cases in the past as well, so it's none too exclusive for this time around) or miss out on the event entirely. And considering the inactivity we were facing in Durotar as you say, the latter seemed like an even worse idea.

[Mozrogg]

I agree with the means of travel and why we went there, but it seems baffling that an event was specifically asked to be hosted by someone on that day if it was already knowledge that we'd be moving to Feralas during that time anyway? Instead of allowing someone to go through the process of organising an event why not simply chalk that day up to a travel event as you said, I myself had no idea we'd be moving to Feralas until about 8:30 realm time which as you know was when the event was already happening., unsure if other people knew what would be happening however.

[Rhonya]

We asked Vanara to host an event, and didn't want him to cancel it. I wasn't sure myself if I'd be there for the event, but I wanted to take people on a travel -after- the event if we had people interested. When Vanara cancelled the event due to lack of interest, you two decided to move on your own already, and I didn't think it needed to go walk all the way with the lack of interest there already. Better then to just go there faster by yourself and RP with the others.
By no means did we ask Vanara to cancel the event for a travel. That was his own choice due to lack of attendence.

Also, when we asked people if they wanted to host an event, we didn't know yet ourselves that we'd go to Feralas, that was a bit of a last minute dicision. Seeing we had no days left anymore to do the travel otherwise (apart from maybe friday during the day, but then we'd miss a part of RP already) and Vanara couldn't move the event to tuesday, we decided to just go after the event then. (But then that was cancelled! )