Orcs of the Red Blade

Disclaimer: This is not something that is being seriously considered right now, it’s more of a pie-in-the-sky proposal than anything that represents official guild policy in the short-term. Nor is this something that will happen anytime soon.

Disclaimer 2: This thread is housed in a private part of the OotRB forum that only registered users can view. While inevitably a discussion like this will end up being ‘leaked’ to the wider community, I would appreciate some degree of discretion as this is a discussion within the guild.

Orcs of the Red Blade are coming up on ten years on the Defias Brotherhood server, and there are both good and bad things about the current state of the RP-PvP server. The possibility of a move to the Argent Dawn RP server was last raised in Summer 2012, in this thread, with distinctly mixed viewpoints:
http://orcsoftheredblade.com/forum/index.php?topic=3037.0

Very recently, certain members have once again raised this notion, and in light of the arguments raised in the 2012 thread, the situation in 2015 has changed to this extent:

1- The state of the Horde RP community -- currently healthy, arguably smaller than in 2012, hardly dead though. AD offers a wider array of RP guilds and crucially, significantly higher random RP for members, along with a wider pool of recruitment to draw new members.

2- The state of the Alliance RP community -- it has undergone heavy migration to AD, the remnant of the community are largely Cogshield plus one or two small guilds (Azure Flame, Band of the Brave), with little left in Stormwind. This has left us with very few viable RP-PvP opponents.

3- Level of RP disruption by PvP griefers -- Mithridatism were worse at their height in 2012 than we have been experiencing of late, but this is undoubtedly an issue, not necessarily during RP events (due to higher numbers and moving around), but later at night and on non-event nights where attendance is ligher. Flying mounts pre-WoD were a poisoned chalice, but they did help us escape and regroup easier. We have Garrisons now as a last-resourt, but the range of WPvP items with the feather make it irritating to deal with griefers, much less wipe them.

4- An undercurrent of opinion in 2012 was valuing DB’s PvP ruleset. In the current day, OotRB's core are arguably less PvP active than before, with worse PvP gear on average and less interested in WPvP, as opposed to BGs, Arenas or RBGs, which are available on any server. Arguably, one could do RP-PvP better on AD than on actual RP-PvP realms. Selective blueshielding in the safety of camp, then battles in the field, and no dedicated WPvP guilds to contend with. While AD has an established tradition of more limiting RP-PvP, with set health-pools, gear, and abilities per moment, there’s nothing to stop us from organising ‘traditional’ DB RP-PvP on other servers with all gear and abilities permitted, and it’s less susceptible from gate-crashing by others.

5- Friends elsewhere on the realm. OotRB members may have friends outside of the guild they enjoy playing with, who do not have characters on Argent Dawn. While an increasing number of DB RPers do have AD alts, this is a problem that we must contend with, if we were to transfer off the server.

The biggest issue and a dealbreaker for many, however, is funding. Outside of occasional sales (be they 50% or 25% off), character transfers are £17.00 GBP each, which is no small sum for a number of people -- especially when some play multiple alts. I would personally have little issue with paying for just one transfer for Sadok, but I know others for whom server transfer would entail numerous characters, or who simply can’t afford even one character.

As part of this brainstorming, we are open to alternate ideas of securing funding, be it a collective PayPal account to raise funds, or crowdfunding via Kickstarter or GoFundMe. The idea would be to raise a sum of money for those who -cannot- afford server transfers, rather than for those that simply don’t want to pay. Dependent on the amount raised and the conditions attached, subsidising transfer fees for core members of the guild (a number in excess of 30) is a possibility, but priority may be given to main characters above all.

Note that above all, there will never be a move off DB if any significant number of our core membership are against it. The officer team have several priorities, but the most important one is to ensure the survival of Orcs of the Red Blade -- splitting the guild by stranding half of its core memberbase on another server is not something we will ever do, and so we would only entertain moving if a vast majority of our members were for the idea.

As such, I would be keen to hear feedback on the following questions:

1- Your feelings on a possible move to Argent Dawn, at an unspecified point in the future;
2- If you are against this, why -- is it about the cost of server transfers, or would you stay on DB even if a crowdfunded free transfer were available?
3- If you are for this, why; and would you be willing to contribute any sum, small or large, to a crowdfunding pool to help others secure their character transfers?

In addition, please vote on the poll to best describe your attitude towards a realm transfer.

Poll: Please describe your attitude towards an OotRB transfer from DB to AD.
1- In favor of a move to AD, would pay a server transfer fee;
2- In favor of a move to AD, if a server transfer was free or subsidised;
3- No strong feelings either way;
4- Against a move to AD even if offered a free or subsidised transfer;

1) first of all I personally feel in the long run it would be better for the guild. DB is shrinking and will inevitably be devoid of other RP'ers. Random RP is near impossible to find now and i feel thats a quality we sorely lack on defias. furthermore, with the absence of alliance guilds to fight in RP-PvP the server type is somewhat defunct, we could do RP-pvp on AD by removing blue-shield then re-activate it after to avoid griefers and other nonsense. We'd also have a wider range of prospective applicants.

2) secondly, I'd be up for contributing something in order to help others transfer. I'm usnrue how much right now, but in the sum of £100 or more, we'll see.

and lastly, yes i voted that i would be up for the move.

I voted on funded transfer because, let's be honest, I can't afford it right now (or anytime soon.)
I'm actally pretty much in favor if only to escape the ganking.

In terms of funding, I'd like to note that I'd personally be willing to contribute between £20 and £40 to a crowdfunding pool for others, on top of my own transfer fee.

Transfer would be fine by me, the only problem will be the money for the transfer. would have to put some money aside each month.

I would not see a problem with moving the tribe to AD..if only for more random rp and less gankers and griefers. And I would be happy to put some money in a shared pot for those with not enough funds to move...how much will have to decided later though

As a forethought, in-case we end up doing this, I would be proactive in saving your character names on AD now. If your name isn't available, you can do one of three things:

1- Check to see who holds the name. If it's a toon at level 10 or below, or a DK below 60, you can ticket to have the name freed up, assuming it's an inactive account.
2- Use accents -- I know some people do this already. So I could be Sádok or Sadók.
3- Use a variation on your name: Saddok or Sadokk, for instance.

Better safe than sorry when it comes to these things.

I voted in favor of the transfer. I am not overly tight on the money and..am a RP first person who..lets put it frankly. Hate PvP. The reason I am on this realm is this guild and two friends on it....okey...more than two now.

At anyrate, I am also ready to support at least one other person to move.

On the questions.

Upsides of AD as I see em : Possibly more random RP, can't say for sure since its been a while. More active or activish guilds. Peace for our RP, without interruptions, except from lollers. Even if not at the moment on the peak of activity, it has more potential to come more active since its...I dare say, one of the most known servers. What I consider more proper RPvP, you know, stuff with rules to make it more than a slugging fest.

Downsides of AD as I see em : Tends to have maaany elitists, lore police people and...just plainly insane RPers there. Reaching an agreement on AD is like...kinda like trying to herd cats the size of cars. Not all of the guildies making it there even if we agree to move.

Otherupside/downsides is that the guild roster gets cleaned :P

Edit: As an afterthought. Upsides are also areas normally veeery dangerous or even impossible to RP in, come available as getting killed is no longer as big a deal.

Whilst I thought originally that I would be completely against this, after reading the post and thinking about it, it's actually rather exciting as it would open up a lot of opportunities for us. PvP would hardly be affected as organised RP-PvP can still be done on AD infact, it's -better- and less messy with OOCers.

It would be sad to leave DB but after 10 years, I can see why OotRB would like to move on and I'd be happy to move along with it.

I'd be in favour of the move, however I do have one question.

What are we going to do with relation to the remaining Horde guilds on DB if we did move? Considering the rivalry and mistrust between Blades and Blood Wolves, are we going to pretend guilds from DB are someplace else and we don't come in contact with them again, or something different?

Quote from: Groshnok on May 04, 2015, 11:15:49 PM
I'd be in favour of the move, however I do have one question.

What are we going to do with relation to the remaining Horde guilds on DB if we did move? Considering the rivalry and mistrust between Blades and Blood Wolves, are we going to pretend guilds from DB are someplace else and we don't come in contact with them again, or something different?

We have discussed it amongst the officer-team already. There's two schools of thought:
- IC handwave -- Azeroth is a big place and we aren't particularly too close to any of the DB guilds as allies, so they simply fade away, sort of like all the old DB guilds that are no longer around, from Banner of the Bloodhoof to Cult of Shadow and Sin Belore. Indeed, we'll find Sin Belore still active on AD, amongst others. And maybe we encounter other DB guilds on AD in the months and years from now.
- IC reasoning -- something like going to an 'alternate dimension' through a portal fuck-up, where we RP that AD is a different version of Azeroth than DB. I'm not too keen on that.

I guess the precedent is when the Shatterskull Marauders and Vile Thorn showed up on DB from TVC in 2012. They were ICly around for years, we just never encountered them before.

I would be in favour of the first option, however there is also things like the Northern Rebellion and other Horde-wide campaigns that I guess would just have to be kept hush-hush.

Always have to take into account that Azeroth isn't the ~150 square miles it's represented as in game but quite a bit larger.

Quote from: Groshnok on May 04, 2015, 11:30:29 PM
I would be in favour of the first option, however there is also things like the Northern Rebellion and other Horde-wide campaigns that I guess would just have to be kept hush-hush.

I think the nature of the Northern Rebellion makes it easy enough to handwave -- we were on one front in a much larger civil war. At the end of the day, you can always just sort it out ICly -- be it people accusing you of making tall-tales up, or claiming it really did happen, or such. xD

Horde is a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge organisation.

Not every part has heard of the other and so on. So we all exist in the same world, just don't allways happen to the same place at the same time. Or even if we do, who says we talked?

I voted in favour of the move. It would be nice to be rid of the gankers, as well as encountering more random RP. I've been on DB since the start and while it has been my home for almost 10 years and it would be sad to leave it, it is mostly nostalgia and my friends who are keeping me here anyway. If all of my friends are moving, I'm moving along.

Could possibly help contribute a little bit to a shared funding pool (aside from my own transfer fee), but not overly much, since I'll be a little short of money after the summer. :)

I voted in favour. In the former discussion, I actually voted no, but back then I had two other guilds I was also active in, and had way more friends on DB. As it stands now, most of those have either quit wow or joined the Red Blades anyway, and the other guilds I'm no longer in.
I think it might actually be refreshing, if a challenge though, but if we all put some effort in to make this work, I think we're going to be fine.

I voted in favour.

While it'd be sad to leave behind a server after so many years, I think it could bring about some nice changes like more random RP, more RP-PvP and genereally just more RPers.. and no gankers. :P I do have friends on AD already, people who's always been there or ex-DB players, so that's a positive thing for me too. I can consider helping out with the funding, but it would really depend on -when- this happens, and how much money I have at the time. I already have several characters I would transfer, so that will cost quite a bit, but I'm sure I can spare a little.

I voted against it, but if the guild goes so will I.
The main reasons I have are these.
I still have a few friends who are on DB and not in the guild, not many mind you. But they exist.
It'd further discourage returning old members from coming back to RPing with us, having to move server just to RP with us would be a little weird.
Then there's the fact that I spent most of cataclysm on AD, and I have several characters there already. And I have a large amounts of alts on DB, who are all tied together to work together with professions etc. Something I'd have to start anew.

Thanks to everyone for voting and giving their feedback so far. I'd be interested to hear from more of the people that voted against a realm transfer, and their reasons for doing so, so we can make sure we've weighed up all options and possibilities.

I'm against a move, mainly because I'm a PvP'er by heart; and that's the reason I came to DB to start off with. Without RP-PvP I'd not really be interested in RP at all. No surprise there for many of you though I guess. And then there's the fact that sure there's more people on AD but half of them are either terrible or just trolls and lollers. So in the end, is there really more people there? I'm doubtful.

EDIT: Sure you can do wpvp on AD too but not the way I like it. *grumbles* Also, it'd probably leave me with quitting wow since I'm not doing much other than pvp and RP lately (even if a bit inactive).

Quote from: Rashka on May 05, 2015, 10:10:50 AM
I'm against a move, mainly because I'm a PvP'er by heart; and that's the reason I came to DB to start off with. Without RP-PvP I'd not really be interested in RP at all. No surprise there for many of you though I guess. And then there's the fact that sure there's more people on AD but half of them are either terrible or just trolls and lollers. So in the end, is there really more people there? I'm doubtful.

I'd argue that a move would actually enable us to do more RP-PvP rather than less. Our viable opponents on the Alliance side for RP-PvP are Cogshield, who have made it clear they will not follow any rules and have no interest in the RP side of the equation, and a swiftly dwindling rest of the community, which is now just Band of the Brave (which is falling apart) and Skarain's Azure Flame, which is small.

On AD, you have a wider range of RP guilds to interact with on the Alliance side, including old enemies like the Three Hammers. While "RP-PvP" on AD generally means something with quite restrictive terms, we'd be quite free to organise our own proper RP-PvP with all gear and abilities permitted, without the risk of it being gatecrashed by griefers. This is, after all, why RP-PvP itself has gradually slid to a halt in the past few years -- I think the last RP-PvP event we even had was more than a year ago.

As for the population, AD's reputation for housing some terrible RPers does precede itself, but if you look around, there's a vast pool of good RP too. Certainly, at the very least, there's as much good RP on AD than there is in the increasingly-shrinking DB remnant, and half of my friends-list nowadays call AD their home -- none of whom I would call terrible RPers. What we need never fear at least is any sacrifice in OotRB's own quality, since we would be retaining our application/interview system to strain the cream from the crop.

I voted to stay on DB it would be a shame to see the guild go. especially after so many years Red Blade is a DB institution in my opinion :3

Quote from: Arkail on May 05, 2015, 11:02:21 AM
I voted to stay on DB it would be a shame to see the guild go. especially after so many years Red Blade is a DB institution in my opinion :3

While I admire the sentiment, sticking to DB for sticking to Db's sake would likely come at the cost of losing the guild as a whole. Alliance is Dead, which means we physically can't get any RP-pvp, furthermore Horde continues to Shrink... so we have nobody on our own faction to interact with on the horizon.

And I sure as hell don't want to stay just so every night, Griefers like cogshield can interupt what RP we can muster.

I'm going to go ahead and vote in favour of this. While we've nearly been on DB for ten years now, I think it's time to make a (positive) change sooner or later, and to expand our horizons. Granted, I have been open for discussion on this topic and a possible move for quite some time now, subjecting myself to the majority of the votes either way (as shown in the thread linked in the OP), but I think now more than ever is the right time to make that switch. I'll list only a few of the reasons here, to me personally, as to why:

- As Sadok said in the above post, RP-PvP on DB is no longer a viable option. Granted, there may always be renewed attempts to try and get something going, but the days of massive RP-PvP battles between RP guilds only are far and well gone here on DB. There's less RP guilds than ever on Alliance side, and the majority of those that are left is, let's be honest, a circlejerk consisting of forum clowns and self-proclaimed RPers who care very little for the good of the server and the rest of its RP that happens outside of their little bubble. DB has had its chance in my eyes, and although I might feel just the slightest bit of remorse for those few guilds that are still here fighting for DB's survival (thinking the Horde community mostly, since there -are- still a few decent guilds left out there) we have to keep our own interests at heart in the end. Moving to AD will open up far more opportunities to us, both for RP as well as RP-PvP, than staying on DB ever will. DB has been standing on its last legs for some time now in my eyes, even if there were rejuvenated periods like the Rebellion and the beginning of WoD when it's logical for activity to pick back up. We would still be able to organize our own RP-PvP campaigns and set out own rules there. I daresay we might still be known for our taste for good RP-PvP campaigns with some of the people on AD, quite a few of which may very well have been active on DB in the past and know of our name and reputation, so finding people that are interested in similar, open-ended RP-PvP campaigns with as few restrictions as possible (at least in regards to gear, rules, etc.) can't be too hard to find.

- ORB has always been a guild that's been able to stand on its own. There were many, many periods throughout DB's history that activity had sunk to an all-time low, and still the guild managed to stay on top due to a committed community. To this very end, I think it's safe to say that even if AD has a bit of a toxic environment here and there as some of you might fear, we'd still be perfectly capable of looking after ourselves and doing our own share of quality control within the guild as Sadok said. One way or another though, I can say with absolute certainty that we'd find more inter-guild interactions on AD than we will at the present day and any day in the coming future on DB, certainly not all of it of poor quality.

- We have a handful of very committed core members right now, which means we would have a good foothold if we were to switch servers. Making that change has turned out to be a very risky business for a lot of RP guilds in the past, but as we have seen with some other guilds (both on our own server as well as AD), having a committed core group of members can really help keep things alive and kicking, and incite other people on the server to come and check us out. I'm 100% certain that ORB will survive the realm change, and may very well in turn out for the better considering the reputation it has built over the years as well as the vast lore that lies behind it. Not to mention that we have a stable structure overall right now, because of weekly events set on regular times due to the committed officer team that we have right now as well as remaining "luxuries" that we can rely upon like this very website, which has been improving and even growing more active as of late due to Sadok's enthusiasm. While there -are- a few orc guilds active on AD already, I'm convinced that none of them will offer the same experience as ORB will, and that alone is something that can give this guild a big chance for survival.

- For those who would be afraid of leaving friends or fellow RPers behind, they would still be able to RP with them and even bring to the guild itself through the magic of RealID nowadays. We know that there are still some of our members who are RPing with some people or guilds outside of ORB and I can very much understand their concerns and dilemma, but if they do want to join the guild on AD but still be able to maintain their contact with outsiders from the guild, RealID can easily help overcome these hurdles. After all, DB is hardly suited for random RP as it is, so we don't exactly stumble into these "outsiders" without some advance knowledge of their location (of their knowledge of ours) anyway. So a simple party invite is hardly that big of a step.

- Though it remains to be seen, Blizzard seems to have made a habit of doing a services discount every summer. Though this could range from June all the way to September, these months aren't -too- far apart from the time of this discussion right now, so if we're able to come to a satisfactory conclusion in all this, we might even be able to afford the realm transfers with less costs, leaving all the more funds for remaining members.

Which brings me to the subject of discouraging returning people from ORB. We've already discussed the possibility of giving returning players who would still be on the guild on DB a notification through the Guild Message of the Day as well as the guild info tab, explaining the move that took place and redirecting them to a thread on these forums where they might be viable to ask for backing of the funds, say 50% of the realm change, in case they would still be interested in following us to AD but lack the resources to do so. We have a few lovely members who already said they'd be willing to put some additional money on the table for people with less financial possibilities (I'd be willing to donate a little sum myself, even though I'm not so lovely myself), so we could leave a little pool of funds available for those that would like to follow after us in the months to follow the realm change. The less people we can leave behind, the better. Which is why we'd only be considering this very move if we know a great majority would be interested and willing in making it. This is all still very much in the "speculation" phase of things. We will only be making it a reality once we know a majority of the (core) members are ready to make that jump with us.

Quote from: Krogon on May 05, 2015, 12:24:18 PM

Quote from: Arkail on May 05, 2015, 11:02:21 AM
I voted to stay on DB it would be a shame to see the guild go. especially after so many years Red Blade is a DB institution in my opinion :3

While I admire the sentiment, sticking to DB for sticking to Db's sake would likely come at the cost of losing the guild as a whole. Alliance is Dead, which means we physically can't get any RP-pvp, furthermore Horde continues to Shrink... so we have nobody on our own faction to interact with on the horizon.

And I sure as hell don't want to stay just so every night, Griefers like cogshield can interupt what RP we can muster.

Agreed, Defias has been slowly dying for a while already, and atm it dosen't really seem like it'll recover imo, so staying seems kinda pointless to me. I love defias, I've had a lot of fun here, but I feel like it's time to move on.

As for what Therak said, I still have friends on DB too, but like Koz said, I can still play with them through real id. The only things that don't work with cross realm/real id stuff, is that you can't trade, be in the same guild, or see each other in Orgrimmar.. and that's pretty much it. You can do everything else. :3 BGs, raids, Arenas, questing, RP etc

1) My feelings? Well, I'm sad to leave Defias, ofc. For various reasons. One being that I left AD to DB, and now moving back, if it comes to that.

2) -

3) I'm voting for the move, but I don't have any money for it. Why for? The gankers, it's only that. Yes more guilds on both Horde and Alliance is nice. But it's the gankers in foremost that makes me vote for the move. I've tried to not care and let me be affected by them, but it sure isn't easy.

In response to Rashka's comment in the shoutbox, no, the grass isn't always greener but change can sometimes be good. For me, it leaves a sour taste in my mouth to consider leaving the only realm I have ever felt at home on but your home is made by the people in it and moving with the guild would be a different experience to moving solo and remember, sometimes it's more prevalent not to ask why should we do something, but why shouldn't we?

Everyone gets a little bit riled regarding change, it's natural, but it's not going to be the end of the world either way so I'll happily go with the majority. AD has alot of plus', DB has mostly nostalgia and negatives, I think it'd be exciting to explore that world even if we end up coming back.

I voted in favor.

I've always thought the Red Blade should move to AD, simply because I would rather see it grow than slowly crumble, which I sadly think it will staying on DB.
Being an AD player for several years I think OrB would do good with a fresh start and new Rp opportunities.

100% in favor. Though, unfortunately, I lack â,¬ to do such change.
But don't worry. I have reached my character limit on Argent Dawn and I would not delete anyone to give room to Rokra to move. So, if you ended up transferring to AD (which I fully support), we would only meet with me not being an Orc   :D


I've said several times and people know my opinion thus far. But I guess it wouldn't hurt if I said it once again:

QuoteRP-PvP realms never made sense.. ever. No, I'm not talking about RP-PvP events, those are fine. I mean Role-Play servers with the PvP tag on it all the time. I know people like PvP and that's fine and dandy.
I like Ice Cream and Ketchup.. but you don't see me mixing both together, right?
In a perfect world, RP-PvP server would make sense IF all players on that server were RP'ers and PvP'ers. But alas, that's not the case. When PvP'ers (who don't RP) mix together with RP'ers, it ends in torture for the RP'ers who just want to have fun with their characters and, dare I say, RP and not go after that one bastard that killed you for no reason but to annoy you for a few (LONG) hours.
If you went to a RP-PvP realm and expected for there to be no grief.. then you were naive or don't know how the internet works. Nor is Blizzard going to protect you because you died on a PvP server (unless the people were really harassing but that's murky grounds).

You want PvP? Turn your "PvP on" on a non-PvP RP server. Or keep a character in a PvP realm and bring your RP characters to a non-PvP Server.


As for the whole "AD is shit compared to DB" talk.. do I really need to comment on that when others have (finally) concluded that's not the case? Yeah, not going to "waste my latin" on that mud flinging pride against "the community next door". I've heard that song plenty of times on a lot of things. From Post-by-Post RP'ers mud flinging to MMO RP'ers, from tabletop mud flinging to the tabletop next door, from MMO RP'ers mud flinging the guild next door and so on..


NOW, as for the "I have friends in DB" talk, I'm sure people have suggested Battle tag. It works fine last time I checked. They are your friends, right? So I'm sure you have their battle tag already.

*Phew* Anyway, I hope you Orcs make the right decision. I'll be pleased if you end up in AD. If not, well.. hope it goes well either way!

I am vehemently against this.

This will be a massive inconvenience to all my characters, particulalrly as all barring karak are heavily invested in other guilds. Yes, I can use RealID, providing it actually -works- but this is adding a layer of inconvenience where there should not be any; not being able to talk to people in /redorc (etc.) when I'm levelling Naeemh, say, would kill the experience; and not bumping into random RP with defias characters kills Siyah's storyline altogether.

To make matters worse the overwhelming majority of guilds who have transfered have, as far as my personal experiences go, failed and collapsed within months. Not only does this corrupt the core of the guild between those wishing to stay or not, causing a terrible amount of needless drama, but it alienates a great number of casual players who may not want to make the move, or cannot afford to, or are unaware of the move yet still want to play; thus trashing the community atmosphere. It establishes a barrier -either in money or convenience- that turns away a great many people. I say this having seen and been a aprt of a -great many- dying guilds in the past. To make matters worse, neither the blades nor my characters have any history on AD apart from what seems to me as blatant conjecture. I cannot comment on what the AD community is like, as I have no experience of it so I see this as more a problem of sheer logistics.

What a move essentially amounts to is you forcing me to chose between two sets fo social groups, neither of which I want to abandon. Karak cannot funtion without the blades; Siyah would have to be reset entirely because a large amount of his development is coming from the Painted skulls and Pandaren (thus a lot of what he would say and hint at would be meaningless as there would be no way of ever 'solving the riddle' as it were), and Naeemh is so beloved by the dawnchasers it would be wrong to move her. Should a move actually happen it is most likely I would give on playing WoW altogether as the sheer guilt of leaving one side out would ruin the fun of the game.

At the risk of sounding shrill and alarmist, I cannot stress what a bad idea this would be.

Thanks for the feedback, Karak. Just gonna address bits of it in bite-sized chunks.

QuoteTo make matters worse the overwhelming majority of guilds who have transfered have, as far as my personal experiences go, failed and collapsed within months.

Of the guilds that have transferred from DB to AD, I think the track record isn't all that bad. Sin Belore are still around and kicking, Three Hammers are just as large -- it's maybe too soon to tell in terms of Forlorn Cartel's longevity, since they just arrived. The only guild I know of that fell off a cliff was Banner of the Bloodhoof, and that was due to the decision to make a whole new multiracial guild with new characters, instead of continue the existing guild and characters -- the lack of continuity caused people to lose interest and drift apart, because they had little prior investment in these new characters.

I'm not gonna deny that there are probably a great deal of other guilds that didn't survive the transition, but I'm personally confident in the ability of our officer-team, our active core, our ten-year reputation, our existing infrastructure (guild website, etc) and such when it comes to OotRB making it the distance.

QuoteNot only does this corrupt the core of the guild between those wishing to stay or not, causing a terrible amount of needless drama, but it alienates a great number of casual players who may not want to make the move, or cannot afford to, or are unaware of the move yet still want to play; thus trashing the community atmosphere.

This is a huge reason why, as stated in the OP, we won't be seriously entertaining this unless there's a significant majority in favor. And that's also why we've been trying to shepherd the less forum active people to have a look at the thread, because this is a decision that will be made not in days or even weeks, quite possibly.

I agree that money is a huge deal, which is why we're going to try and secure crowdfunding -- a solid third of those voting on the poll are willing to make the change, but can't afford the transfer cost. We should be able to make this a reality for them, along with saving whatever is left over as a fund for others who may return later.

Our unofficial motto, should this go ahead, is "no orc left behind." We'll do our damnedest to make it possible for every single member who wants to, to join us, if that is the decision we go with.

QuoteTo make matters worse, neither the blades nor my characters have any history on AD apart from what seems to me as blatant conjecture. I cannot comment on what the AD community is like, as I have no experience of it so I see this as more a problem of sheer logistics.

Inevitably, the notion of rationalising a realm-change has to be done either with a hand-wave, given the setting of WoW is significantly larger and more populated than what is represented on DB, or with a tip of the hat to different servers being different universes. I don't personally subscribe to the latter theory -- when Shatterskulls (and all their derivations like Blood Wolves, etc) joined the server, they largely fit in, and now years after the fact, they're just as ingrained upon DB as they ever were on TVC.

We have to deal constantly with characters and guilds that are important to our characters and to the in-game setting suddenly disappearing out of nowhere, from guilds like Blackblood Clan and the Cult of Shadow fading with a whimper, to important and active members of the guild like Morgeth, Mazguul and such just disappearing for inexplicable reasons. A realm transfer is obviously an extreme part of that, but it's something to be weighed up in terms of positives versus negatives.

QuoteWhat a move essentially amounts to is you forcing me to chose between two sets fo social groups, neither of which I want to abandon. Karak cannot funtion without the blades; Siyah would have to be reset entirely because a large amount of his development is coming from the Painted skulls and Pandaren (thus a lot of what he would say and hint at would be meaningless as there would be no way of ever 'solving the riddle' as it were), and Naeemh is so beloved by the dawnchasers it would be wrong to move her. Should a move actually happen it is most likely I would give on playing WoW altogether as the sheer guilt of leaving one side out would ruin the fun of the game.

This is ultimately obviously not what we want, either when it comes to an individual or multiple people. Siyahgosh is in sort of a unique situation in regards to how closely he networks with the pandas and trolls, certainly beyond that of the average member of the guild. That doesn't mean your concerns should be dismissed out of hand, but I guess the ultimate balancing act is whether or not the inconveniences of realm transfer are outweighed by the benefits of leaving DB.

You've given your personal stake in the matter, and to give my own personal stake -- it's become largely impossible (and at best just very irritating) to organise any form of RP-PvP on this server, and engagement with PvP griefing only detracts from the server's quality of life. As an officer, I consider it my responsibility to do everything I can to keep the whole of the guild engaged and welcome, but it's also personally frustrating when attempts at resolving story-arcs or organising meaningful RP campaigns with the Alliance are met with responses like (quotes redacted to avoid naming and shaming):

"Cause every single time, you assholes can't follow them. If you try set rules, [blank] will Not follow them. We'll fucking nuke your ass back to Orgrimmar"
"[blank's] fight with DDP was a lot more fun than the skirmishes the rp-pvp campaigns ever had"
"So why are we planing an Rp-pvp campaign? It's pretty pointless to debate this, either you want Rp-pvp or you don't."
"I don't think it matters, it's obvious their are some exlclusionary elements here that just don't want people participating."
"[Blank] will not follow any rules, because people have not followed them in the past. That's final. We will be present, but we shall do so at our own terms"

And yes, those are all different people, it's not just one asshole.

AD has its toxic elements, but the addition of compulsory PvP mechanics means mere dickwaddery becomes completely obstructive, and means people like me just give up, because what's the point if it's gonna get ruined anyway?

The old adage for AD and DB was "quantity versus quality". A lot of the quality RPers I know from DB are on my Real-ID list every night on AD, and while the Horde community on Defias remains largely decent, the Alliance half on whom RP-PvP ultimately depends on is a diminished, venomous rump. At that point, Defias no longer has the claim to have 'quality' over AD, and it sure doesn't have 'quantity'.

So personally speaking, I'd rather take my chances with the good people in this guild on a realm with significantly more RP opportunities than find ourselves constricted and fenced in by what's simply not possible on a PvP realm. Tanaan is the natural conclusion of all the storylines going on both in WoD and in OotRB currently, but I worry if we'll be able to experience it without significant OOC disruption due to its nature as a Timeless-Isle style zone.

Sorry if that's a very lengthy response, but your reply has been the best case for staying on DB posted thus far, and I felt it deserved an appropriate response.

To me it sounds like it's all pretty much already decided.

Looking at the poll, the votes do seem to weigh heavily in favour. Even so, nothing has been decided just yet, and even if it were to happen, it won't for a while longer just yet I'm sure.

28 people have voted in the poll so far. I've calculated that our current active core membership is not in considerable excess of 30 members, so if you have yet to vote, please do so. And if you've voted but not commented yet, please consider giving your feedback!

Every opinion counts.

So your saying mine opinion counts?

Quote from: Regorn on May 06, 2015, 07:16:32 PM
So your saying mine opinion counts?

If you come back and RP anytime soon, sure! Although if you're effectively MIA indefinitely, the majority verdict of our current active core probably takes priority, in the end.

I'm still open to hearing feedback from everyone, active or inactive, on the subject though.

I'm not currently a member but I've intended to join up again at some point, probably not with Hellbrew, at least not in his current incarnation as my monk is promised to my IRL friends raiding guild. I was however going to sign up with my warrior, either as Hellbrew with a new shiny axe, or as new character. As fate would have it, my warrior is already on AD, so if ORB would move there it would certainly be cheaper for me :)

I'm also one of those people that have been on DB since day 1, as I wrote in another thread recently, I was one of the founders of Sons of Draenor, a guild I believe Koz was briefly a member in before he went on to ORB. So I share the other people's sentimentality when it comes to DB and all the history I have there. But more so I share the realization that despite the fact that all RP-PVP realms are merged now, their RP is slowly but surely declining and has been for the past few years now, and the community itself is reaching new levels of toxicity with each passing month I reckon.

What Im trying to say is, I'd rather have a server full of RPers AND Lollers than a server full of griefers/lollers/asshats AND dying RP, regardless of my history there.

Having said that, I'll most likely join up again regardless what server ORB will find itself on.

Anyway, as I was curious about the result of this poll I voted the more indifferent choice, as I do not wish to sway the poll either way as Im not a current member.

I moved from a RP server just two months ago, so it's not strange to hear that I'm against it. But if you went to Argent Dawn, I would create a new character to RP with you. It's a short time, but it's being very funny to RP with you ^^

Hey guys. I voted in favour of the move to AD and I would like to share my opinion on why I would like to see the tribe move to AD.
I quite simply used a “Pros and cons” list to make my decision. Here’s a run through!

We’ll start off with the pros:


-   It’s an opportunity for the Red Blades to grow: As it is known, Defias Brotherhood’s activity has been decreasing over time. There is some activity on the Horde side while the Alliance side is crumbling by the looks of it. When the server activity dims down even further, I don’t think there’ll be a bright future for the Red Blades on Defias Brotherhood. IF the Red Blades were to move the Argent Dawn, where the RP traffic seems to be at a higher scale, there will be more opportunities for the tribe to grow and even exist for a longer period of time then I feel it would on Defias Brotherhood.


-   More options for Outer-guild Activity: As mentioned in my first pro, Defias Brotherhood’s RP community is decreasing and therefor the RP options with other guilds on the server is also decreasing. I personally love Outer-Guild activities such as campaigns (Not as large as the Northern Rebellion mind you) and simply casual RP with guildies, but also with members from other RP guilds. It gives variation in RP for me personally that I love and I feel that we as a guild would have more possibilities on Argent Dawn.

-   No ganking: As everyone might know by now, Argent dawn is simply an RP server. Over the past few years (Strongly increasing in my eyes over the past few months) we’ve had issues with PvP guilds that are out simply to ruin RP. They do so by coming in large groups, killing the RP’ers and even corpse camp to continue their tyranny. This is a (for me personally at least) major turn-off when it comes to RP. When I log on I want to be able to relax, enjoy some good RP, hope that others have fun as well and then call it a night. However, due to the massive ganking patterns of RP griefers, it has spoiled my fun many of times… Simply put: too many times and I know for a fact that others are quite tired of this pattern of RP griefing. Therefor I also feel that a move to AD would be good for the guild.

-   We would be taking a risk: How is this a pro, one might ask. In my eyes, taking risks is a part of life. It’s a part of life you need to be able to balance out, as taking (unnecessary) risks on a regular base is bad. However, it doesn’t take away the fact that risks create opportunities. Risks that have been thought through well enough usually end up on a positive note. A move to AD would, as seen in the pros I’ve listed, create many opportunities when it comes to growth, relaxation, but most importantly fun.


Now for the cons:

-   The Red Blades will be leaving their home behind: This is something that has been brought up on several occasions and I agree. It’s a bit “greedy” in a sense to leave the RP community of DB behind to find personal success elsewhere. However, I don’t feel the tribe is bound to DB for the sole purpose of helping out DB. In my eyes the tribe is around to give a solid RP hub to players in search of one. If it’s a better move for the guild to move to AD than stay on DB, then I feel that this con is pushed aside on a rather brutal manner.

-   Mixed Feedback on the RP situation on AD: I’ve also seen players talk about the level of RP on AD being a lower standard than on DB. Then again, I’ve heard good things about the RP situation on AD. I can’t give my own opinion on the server as I’ve simply only ever RP’d on Defias Brotherhood, which does give me some doubts when it comes to the integrity of the guild’s RP. However, looking at the application process we have for the guild, my worries disappear. Our selection process for new members would stay the same, fill out an application, get it approved and follow up with an IC interview. If we come across roleplayers that we feel would “damage” the standard of RP within the guild, we can always decline the application or decline the person in the IC interview. In that sense, I don’t fear for the guild’s integrity when it comes to the level of RP that takes place.


-   Leaving the players behind that don’t want to move: There will always be a group of players that won’t agree with changes, which would result in paths splitting. IF the tribe would move to AD, then I do fear that a few members will stay behind. This is a con that does get me the most as there is simply no solution to resolving the gap that would be created if members do get left behind if the tribe moves to AD. At the end of the day, the Red Blades aren’t special because of one single person. The Red Blades are unique because we have a unique selection of RP’ers in our community. Even if it’s simply one member that would be left behind, I would be saddened as it’s just an unpleasant and nasty thought to have. I am in favour of the move to AD, but I would be truly saddened with every loss we create if the tribe would move to AD.

With that said, the pros outweigh the cons in my eyes and that is why I vote in favour of the move to AD. However, whatever is decided at the end of the day I will back up the Red Blades as it’s been an amazing, nearing two years (I think… maybe even three... Idunno) that I’ve been honoured to be part of this little RP community.

As a final note, this is simply my opinion on the idea. I ofcourse respect everyone else's opinions on the situation! Have a good night everyone :).

I'm all for moving to Argent Dawn. I've got the student-money to change my one character(Mazthar). And tbh, the ganking is getting on my nerves. My only problem with moving is that I have to create character space on AD.  :P
I've done lots of RP on Argent Dawn, and I think moving there would open up lots of windows for the guild RP-wise.

To give an opinion of AD roleplayers, still having characters there and having moved from there not thaaat long ago.

Their standards are not lower then Defias, oooh no. They are mainly focusing on different points. I'd say if anything generally AD guilds and people have very high standards that well, limit them. And those that have low standards don't usually interact too much. And then offcourse you have the angsty teen lead guild, what I mean with that is people with ideas that generally make things unbalaced for interguild roleplay, huge differences in powerlevels you could say.
I could also warn that some guilds on hordeside are just near impossible to interact with. For an example there is a guild of Burning Blade Blademasters(Ironhorde), full of veteran Blademasters that expect themselves to be treated like Lore blademasters. Meaning they expect to be invincible and able to kill regiments solo. Just try and have a conflict driven event with them...


But all in all, there are good guilds and many random RPers that are very reasonable, adaptive and welcoming. And fun to interact with. Loners who can be drawn to the flame of RP even if they never join a single guild.

Quote from: Umaua on May 07, 2015, 10:06:09 AM
To give an opinion of AD roleplayers, still having characters there and having moved from there not thaaat long ago.

Their standards are not lower then Defias, oooh no. They are mainly focusing on different points. I'd say if anything generally AD guilds and people have very high standards that well, limit them. And those that have low standards don't usually interact too much. And then offcourse you have the angsty teen lead guild, what I mean with that is people with ideas that generally make things unbalaced for interguild roleplay, huge differences in powerlevels you could say.
I could also warn that some guilds on hordeside are just near impossible to interact with. For an example there is a guild of Burning Blade Blademasters(Ironhorde), full of veteran Blademasters that expect themselves to be treated like Lore blademasters. Meaning they expect to be invincible and able to kill regiments solo. Just try and have a conflict driven event with them...


But all in all, there are good guilds and many random RPers that are very reasonable, adaptive and welcoming. And fun to interact with. Loners who can be drawn to the flame of RP even if they never join a single guild.

Alright. Thank you for enlighting me ( and others possibly) on that. Like I said, I have nihil experience when it comes to rp'ing on AD, so it is nice to get some more insight on others' their perspectives on Rp on AD. :)

I must admit I have taken a more detailed look at AD's forums since this topic was brought up and I although I have never roleplayed on the server, I can certainly see where Umaua is coming from with those points. AD seems to be rather elitist on their view of the lore and they seemingly do not encourage or even acknowledge server lore like we do on DB. I can bet my last copper that the biggest difficulty we will experience if we shift is intregrating our detailed background; I think even our old orcish IC rank names will be sneered at but that's something to tackle when it comes to it!

I think AD does have -more- RP to get involved with, we won't get ganked and have a higher opportunity to actually forge RP-PvP campaigns that can be controlled, so I do think it's a good move to make as noted prior but if anyone has fears that the quality of RP on AD is below average, I think you need to take a read of their forums. It's not a bad quality, it's a refined quality, the question is; can OotRB sit comfortably in the mix?

Hey! I just joined so I voted no strong feelings for or against. I'm still trying to find my place in the guild and see what I enjoy since it has been a while since I RPed extensively. I also have lots of things happen in RL so I don't really know if I'll keep playing through the summer etc. I've also found a newfound interest in leveling alts, now specifically an alliance alt since I've never actually experience the game from that side above lvl 20 or so.

So for me, do what you feel is best for the guild! I probably won't transfer a character if you move, since I'm just finishing my studies and don't know when I'll get paid the next time. Perhaps I'll level an alt if I miss you :) I probably will miss you, since you're a nice bunch, but for the reasons above I will probably not transfer!

To be fair. AD forums have all ways been a cesspool. There are plenty of loudmouths and smearing campaigns, so I would not take them all too seriously. The people I imagine we want to interact with, are lead by people who usually don't spend hugely much time on the forums, nor take part in the "LORE SMASH" acts. Also the nice randoms we want to interact with, are unlikely to take too big part on the forums. And even the smearers on the forums, act more cordially in the game itself, usually...some of them.

Another point, regarding to the history of this guild, will it be accepted? Yes. We would not be the only RP guild with their own terms and habits. As long as we don't try to claim such to be actual lore. But more of the clans/tribes own habit and alike, I would say 80-90% of AD peeps will be fine with it. That depending hugely on how we present it.
As an example, Blackjaw Clan on AD has their own history, words, traditions and they even claim some of them to be actual lore...yet still they are the biggest orc guild on the server and more or less respected. Addmittedly also avoided to a degree as they are very unapologetic on what they do(Like child killing, control on mated pairs, severe punishments for everything, etc).

That to elaborate on few points.

Also as an afterthought, AD has stronger alliance then Horde, and good orc guilds like this are a rarity. So I would not be too concerned of being scorned or running dry on new members.

As a tangent on the AD forum.
Back during wrath when I was somewhat active on the realm forum  I used to lurk AD for shits and giggles. Because that place is crazy. Not reflective on the server other than the random RP of stormwind/silvermoon and other stuff like that.

Quote from: Umaua on May 07, 2015, 04:41:50 PM
To be fair. AD forums have all ways been a cesspool. There are plenty of loudmouths and smearing campaigns, so I would not take them all too seriously. The people I imagine we want to interact with, are lead by people who usually don't spend hugely much time on the forums, nor take part in the "LORE SMASH" acts. Also the nice randoms we want to interact with, are unlikely to take too big part on the forums. And even the smearers on the forums, act more cordially in the game itself, usually...some of them.

Another point, regarding to the history of this guild, will it be accepted? Yes. We would not be the only RP guild with their own terms and habits. As long as we don't try to claim such to be actual lore. But more of the clans/tribes own habit and alike, I would say 80-90% of AD peeps will be fine with it. That depending hugely on how we present it.
As an example, Blackjaw Clan on AD has their own history, words, traditions and they even claim some of them to be actual lore...yet still they are the biggest orc guild on the server and more or less respected. Addmittedly also avoided to a degree as they are very unapologetic on what they do(Like child killing, control on mated pairs, severe punishments for everything, etc).

That to elaborate on few points.

Also as an afterthought, AD has stronger alliance then Horde, and good orc guilds like this are a rarity. So I would not be too concerned of being scorned or running dry on new members.

Good to know!

The officer team will be properly discussing this thread on Monday, and coming to a formal decision about the long-term future of OotRB, be it remaining on Defias Brotherhood or transferring to Argent Dawn.

At that point, this thread will have been open a week, so I reckon everyone who is going to see it will have seen it by then. If you've yet to vote in the poll, please do so. And if you've voted but haven't commented yet, that's very important too -- it's not just a matter of numbers, we're looking for feedback about why you wish to stay or transfer.

Feedback so far has been disproportionately weighted towards "Yes", so if you've voted "No", we'd especially appreciate your views.

Thanks!

Just a note, I felt i ought to post this image...



or

http://s15.postimg.org/5x620ugpn/Wo_WScrn_Shot_051015_182233.jpg

Anyhow, i'm the big tauren on the Garn.

As you can see, 40+ RP'ers, mostly horde outside ratchet for a tournament at hours well before peak time on Argent Dawn. Meanwhile, silvermoon was packed, Thudnerbluff had a wedding starting up, Orgrimmar had RP in every valley and lots of RP'ers were idle in warspear and garissons.

The population difference on Horde alone is Staggering!

Anyhow, hope that illuminates a few things.

And to say it...AD's horde population is drastically smaller than Alliance.

So if we need enemies...we got em.

I thought id try AD out a bit on my warrior that has been residing there for awhile. I planted my but in the valley of heroes in Orgrimmar, put my MRP status to looking for contact. In the hour that I sat there I had at least 10 different people approach me for random RP. That has never happened to me on DB with strangers.

May I say that I find it cute that some of you only found out about AD and have come to certain conclusions just now?
Better late than never~

But yes, that screenshot is just an example of what awaits you.. and I've seen more numbers in the past on other events (mainly in all sorts of campaigns that last for weeks). Then again, quality over quantity but let's not get on our high horses, shall we?
Bad apples appear on every garden. Just bigger gardens have more apples, thus more variety and more room for bad seeds.

Again, why does a lot of people point fingers at the big country on the other side of the Atlantic and the large number of foul folk with their delusional thoughts that reside there? Because the country has a large population, which leaves more room for more fools. Though, if we look at things from a statistical point of view, it's about the same as any other country in the world. 10% of a thousand is always bigger than a 10% of a hundred.. but the point is that it's still 10% of a total number. But the Thousand will always be blamed as the one with a loud minority for having a "bigger" 10% compared to the 10%'s of small groups of hundreds.

What I'm saying is, expect a large spectrum of colors if you decide to go there.

Or short, DB's a village. AD is a city. I'm sure you can draw the parallels with these comparisons for one side has advantages over the other and vice versa.


More stuff for you to think about.. though I'm sure some of the minds on this guild have come to the same conclusion years ago, right?

QuoteAnd then there's the fact that sure there's more people on AD but half of them are either terrible or just trolls and lollers.

Oh..
Goldshire, the main spots of Stormwind and the area around Silvermoon's Bazaar should not count for that statistic since most "decent" (ugh, hate using that word) RP'ers on AD know where not to go. Good thing there's a large world out there and a million of opportunities to RP outside of those places, right?

The fact that people didn't want to go to AD before, was never truly only the fact that 'they thought it was so horrible' on that side. It was just one of many reasons when the last discussion rose all those years ago, because DB was still much more a healthy community back then, compared to now.
It's for many always been a bit of a last resource to keep in mind, because the guild started almost 10 years ago on this server and it also has a bit of sentimental value for a lot of people, not to mention the connections we had with other large guilds back then that now don't excist anymore.
So it's not that we 'just find out' about AD for most of us I suppose (Can't really speak for anyone else but myself ofc), but more that we don't really have another choice now anymore, if you look at the state of DB. And seeing how the poll goes, a lot of people agree with that.

Quote from: Hellbrew on May 10, 2015, 11:58:31 PM
I thought id try AD out a bit on my warrior that has been residing there for awhile. I planted my but in the valley of heroes in Orgrimmar, put my MRP status to looking for contact. In the hour that I sat there I had at least 10 different people approach me for random RP. That has never happened to me on DB with strangers.

That's pretty cool!

Quote from: Rhonya on May 11, 2015, 09:07:05 AM
It's for many always been a bit of a last resource to keep in mind, because the guild started almost 10 years ago on this server and it also has a bit of sentimental value for a lot of people, not to mention the connections we had with other large guilds back then that now don't exist anymore.

And that is something that I know that's truly going on at the end of the road. Ten years on the same place with little change. Everything else off this community that you are familiar with seems strange and bizarre, so they must be bad since they are different. Yeah, those weirdos.
*ahem* (http://www.wowhead.com/npc=62196/flekky-nox#abilities) *coff* (http://www.wowhead.com/npc=62197/zazzle)


So yes, sentimental value, which is understandable. Never denied that such is true and, without a doubt, the main reason.

What bugs me is the absurd amount of excuses to hide the actual feelings some of you have for DB rather than say:
"Oh, I don't want change since I'm so used to this way for years. Therefore, my love and dedication to a particular aspect and the same people that I've been dealing with for years as made me feel weary about any change." ... Which some of you did something among those lines when you posted here and, to those, I applaud because they didn't use the cliche of "X smells and sucks" without any evidence or explanation, only thrown around in hope it will stick to the wall instead of saying straight out that they have feelings for something they have been working and having fun with for years. You know, obvious facades that serve no purpose instead to lose everyone's time to strip those thin paper/transparent facades and straight to the root of the issue.

No. To those that straight out said they would rather not have any sort of change because of their feelings for this specific server.. those deserve a hug and respect for being honest.
But for those, I'm sure most people have responded kindly that the DB you were once familiar with has been filled with non-RP'ers and gankers. The good memories you have.. they are memories and no one is going to take those away from you. Cherish them and try to replicate what you miss so dearly on new grounds. Even if the majority of the world around you may not understand your vision, there's always some that will. And to those, create a connection.
Everything comes to an end sooner or later, but it doesn't mean there won't be any more good times in the future on other places. It all depends on you and to those that you made connections with.
So cheer up, will you lovelies? The guild will be together even after this change (I'm assuming, for the sake of this post I'm writing, that you will indeed decide to go ahead with the transfer. It may never happen though!). Sure, those not within the guild and are on DB will.. stay behind. But it's their choice and they are free to follow your footsteps. Even if they decide not to, it's not the end of the world and you will always have way to communicate and do things with them. Sure, it is a little more limiting but, as many have said, it's a price.. and nothing comes for free. If the connection is strong, you will find ways to stick together with the people that you like.


I may seem highly supercilious when I type these kind of posts but know that I do not mean harm. My objective with these posts is to mentally prepare you for what may happen and to allow yourselves to broaden your horizons given that some of you have been on this server for years and nothing else. It's no wonder that you feel the way you are feeling now. Trust me when I say that I'm not "missing the point" when I type these things. I'm reaching out for those that may still think the things that I have mention thus far that I find absurd, even though they might not say it out loud (at least some of them).
To tell the truth, most of the time when these kind of things happen, I just stay back and watch the show unveil, taking mental notes and already using my intuition to determine what's going to truly happen and what's going to happen to that or other person. Curious when something unexpected happens and amused (or annoyed, depends) when it exactly happens just the way I predicted. Not that I take pleasure from drama, I do not. But I like to learn from afar.. study peculiar interactions and grow from the experience at the cost of people that are not willing to grow.

I'm starting to feel this discussion is beginning to drag a little off-course. As far as I can tell, people have simply set out to test the waters ahead of what might be a bigger plunge and are sharing their experiences here. I'm quite certain there's been no premature conclusions attached to those few hours of running around just yet, just as much so that I'm quite certain all of us are aware that every server has its good and bad apples. Even so, I'm sure those that would rather not go will have their good reasons as well, apart from feeling a particular place is worse or feels less like home than another. After all, people place sentimental value on the strangest things sometimes. The rest of us can do little but shrug our shoulders and accept that, and respect those people for wishing to stick to what's important to them. Our intention is by no means to create any manner of rift between the guild, if we were to go through with this decision. People are always able to change their mind in hindsight still, as I'm sure we will be able to come up with a satisfactory means for people to come join us after any big switches are made, if they happen at all. We intend to make sure all of these things will be arranged by that time.

Having said that, I don't believe anyone is trying to bash any particular community here as far as I can tell, so I don't think there's really any need to have this discussion escalate any further than need be anyway! As mentioned before, there will be a final announcement on this matter after the officers have properly discussed and reviewed this matter and topic, so stay tuned for that!

Just looking back on the DefiasRP forums there. A year yesterday was the start of the Redridge campaign. Sad to think it's been so long since we had that kind of RP-PVP. The prisoner exchanges and interrogation was great fun.