Guild Wars 2

[Garrock]

Hello everyone!
We dont seem to have a topic for GW2 like we have for Swtor and Tera, but now we do!

Guild Wars 2 is another new MMO that is coming out in 2012. The developers are saying that if you like MMO's, you definetely want to check it out.
If you dont know yet, its free to play so you dont have to pay monthly fees.
It will be 'a next generation mmo', meaning all quest mechanics are Dynamic Events...the whole world is dynamic, for example if players fail to defend a village from monsters...the village will be conquered by the monsters until it is conquered back etc etc.

Right now theres alot of beta videos coming out as during last weekend there was a Closed Beta for press and other people.
Heres one vid i want to show:
http://www.ign.com/videos/2012/02/20/guild-wars-2-world-vs-world-pvp

It is in HD quality, absolutely stunning graphics in the game... the game mode World vs World pvp looks unbelievable, although in the beta there arent that many players...but imagine when the game is released.

Im hyped up about this game, its nothing like Aion or Rift...it actually has more races than just humans. And its simplified more so you dont have 50 abilities in your action bars that need to be keybinded (like WoW) and they promise that the game wont have any boring quests nor farming/grinding.

Manifesto trailer (if you dont know anything about this game, this vid will tell the basics):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35BPhT-KI1E

[Grekthar]

I played GW1 for a while...but found it horrific compared to WoW...don't know why, but it just seemed...less MMOish and more single player than anything else if I'm explaining it right..

I've seen tons of videos for GW2 and it seems to fix that problem...but I think I'll wait till my brother gets it since he's planning on getting it. So, when he gets it, I'll make a char on it and give it a run to see what its like before getting a copy for myself. Unless GW2 comes out with a demo before or after the game is released.

Prefer to try something before I buy it personally.

[Garrock]

yep, but unlike most mmos this one is like a normal console game...just need to buy the game discs and boom...you can play it forever!
Which is awesome

I already liked the world events in Rift, but they were way overtuned and repetative. Like level 9 elites 2 shotting my 30 level tank, its just weird... was definetely not worth the monthly fee, would have been playing more if it was F2P.

Also i dont like the way in every MMO we have so many abilities that we need razer naga to be able to keybind them all.
So this game will have like max 10 keybinds in combat, much more abilities however but you never need to be able to use them all at once. <3

[Akesha]

I very much doubt I'll be playing GW2. From what I've seen, the world appears to be a fantasy world, with some elements of steam-punk-esque technology - a bit like, WoW and Warhammer and Rift. I feel like I've done that to death.

[Lars]

The reason you want to play GW2 is the game systems. A long side with well developed lore that's getting propper love.

For RP you'll be able to use your skills without a target. ALL your skills. Which you can't deny being a good thing. You have a "civilian" outfit you can switch into easily, with a press of a button.
Then the minigames. Bar brawls, a rugby esq-sport, archery as a sport, and tons of things of that frivilous nature.

Being able to change the colour on your gear easily, so styles might differ a bit but colours will stay as you want them. And you'll, as I understood it, be able to change the look of a piece of gear to any other one you've owned with the use of an item. Without needing to own the item you're changing it into.

Asfor the Fantasy World with some elements of steam-punk. I'd say you think wrong. Or we geeks are just to good at ... putting things into groups.
I'd say it is a fantasy world with magic, with some races that are in different stages of technological revolutions.
The Norn not really being that evolved at all, but using some from others where they can.
The Charr being in a heavy industrial revolution with black smog and everything (yay!).
The humans being somewhere between those two I'd say. Some real fancy engineering but nothing "Look, this tech is COOL and USEFUL if you power it with steam!"

Then we have Sylvari, who are too young (lorewise the first one spawned like... 25 game years or somtehing pree start of GW2). SO no, they don't have that much tech. Even if they quite likely know about it.

Then we have the Asura who are the classical short race with over powered technology.

Yes it might be a bit like WoW and Warhammer in essence. But if that's your critera for things you don't want a lot of games get cut away =P Still, I'd be guessing that the flavour in GW2 will be a lot different.



As for the game itself.
From what people who's played it say. It plays far more like an action game than a Hot-key based MMO. You have to move around if something is attacking you, else you will die. Maybe not at level 3, but defenatly at level 30 and above. At least from all big telegraphed attacks.
For leveling the closest you'll get to standard MMO quests is in the Personal Story. Which unlike SWTOR is far from as scripted but supposedly a lot more fluid. All other PvE events outside of dungeons is events that are rather dynamic in nature. And that happen basicly every where when you run across it. No classical NPC standing around in a square telling you that you need to save the village from Centaurs. Then you need to run out and find them. The centaurs will quite obviously attack.
As for the PvP side of things. No ganking, everyone on a server is on the same team. Can't even tagsteal mobs. Since there's a so to speak "passive" party where you help each other by default. Then you can level from level... rather low up to level max in the WvW PvP. Which has some PvE like events. ANd lots f towers, keeps, fortresses, labour camps etc you can claim for your server. (WvW is World vs World vs World).

And, the nicest thing?
You'll just pay once and then not need to pay every month. So as long as you maybe play 20-40 hours you've gotten your "moneys worth" compared to most games you pay 49-49 euros for.
There will be microtransactions (and later in, expansions but separate issue), but those will never give power. It'll be cosmetic items, extra character slots, and stuff of that nature. As it sounds and have for very long not even server transfers will be a monetary transaction since they still live on the same server style as GW, aka with a centralised character database.

Annnnnd, I'm done selling the game for now. Out!

[Akesha]

The thing is Marogg, I look at the setting of GW2 and I see absolutely nothing that I have not seen countless times before. It seems to have become the norm in modern fantasy that you have a setting that is essentially late medieval with big swords and plate armour, then you throw in a race that has some later technology. It has become such a cliche. All the innovative game play in the world will not make me want to play yet another copy and paste fantasy setting.

We've seen loads of these MMO's come out in the last few years. All offering essentially a variant on the same setting, but with (what is always claimed is going to be) ground breaking new gameplay. None of them has been a big success. Certainly none of them has held my attention because I just don't see the point in investing maybe a couple of years of my spare time doing more RP in what is just a different flavour of the same thing.

The reason I'm playing SWTOR right now is not because its an amazing game - it's really not. It's good, but not great. The reason I'm playing SWTOR is because it's setting is different. It's refreshing to not be RPing yet another fantasy character. The fact that the gameplay is very much the same as WOW's in a lot of ways, is not a problem for me.

Anyway, I don't want this to sound like a sales pitch for SWTOR. What I'm really saying is that I want an MMO that is offering a setting that is new and different. I played AoC for years (despite it not being very good) because the setting is very different from WoW. SWTOR's setting is very different from both WoW and AoC. For my next MMO I want one that has a setting that does not remind me of WoW, AoC or SWTOR, because by the time I'm looking for a new one, I'll have done what I want to do in those places.

[Garrock]

Well, the background stories and histories are far different than in WoW. Not sure what you mean with setting otherwise, rpg games are usually fantasy because if it was realistic then you would be playing real life on your computer.
Just wait till entertainment gets back to the scifi-theme I think we are currently in the fantasy-theme, according to games and movies that are being released.

But we will see everything once its released.

Its really good that it doesnt have monthly fee because eventually the amount of money ye have spent into the game would be massive.
And thats only to be able to play the game...

[Lars]

This is fully off topic from GW2. But Garrock, the second or third most popular pen paper roleplaying system. White Wolves: World of Darkness. Is essentially set in our world. With myths and folkes tales being true. But you can play the game with no supernational aspects at all.
(Second or Third since I don't know if GURPs is more popular or not. I am assuming that Dungeons and Dragons is)

[Garrock]

\o/


ps. though we were talking about MMO's 

[Lars]

I wrote this upp for how some things are intended to work, in the response to a "how does healing work, since I can't see any healing classes" on the DB RPers forum:

"Well, first of all every class has their own Heal. That's mostly personal.
Every class have more than one skill. SOme active, some passive, some with a small AoE factor in it.
Aka, every player will to some degree be quite responsible for their own health.

Then, some classes have extra healing to others a support. Elementalists in Water have some AoE healing skills and their Water "stance" I think have a passive small healing aura. Engineers have Healing Turrets they can place out.
Things of that nature.
The key here is that from what I've understood there is no targetable heals. No class has a skill they put on a friendly player that heal them.

Support in GW2 will be more along the lines of removing conditions and giving out boons. (debuffs/buffs). Than healing. And other things that are more pre-emptive than most MMO healing is.
Same as you won't really tank, since no class will be able to stand and take it all and survive for long. Looking at Guardian that is one of the two heavy armor classes (along with warrior) it's supposedly one of those with the smallest health pool. So yes, it has armor, some skills that normal a "Tank" would have in an MMO. But not the health.
The tankingparts in GW2 I believe the full party will have to help with by regularly shifting focus. There won't be a standard "Aggro" or "Threat" mechanic. Some monsters will attack the target closest to them, some maybe furthest away from them. Etc.
So, Control which is the tank difference is about getting conditions on enemies, and removing the boons they put upon themselves. Along with making sure that they don't hit others.

Also, all classes will be able to take all roles. As I've understood it, if you want to play the game as effective as possible in a dungeon you'll never be/say "Okay, you <name> concentrate on support, you there, <warrior> go and concentrate on controling ... etc" But rather everyone will have to be on their toes and support party members and controlling the environment and enemies as they have to. While damaging.
On this factor. Most support and Control skills either damage the enemy, or does the other one.
For example guardians have skills where they remove conditions on friends and give out boons instead. Or something (It's not exact, but to get the picture).

Might have cleare some up. Might not be 100% correct. But I think it's along these lines that A-net has in mind."

[Akesha]

Well, the background stories and histories are far different than in WoW. Not sure what you mean with setting otherwise, rpg games are usually fantasy because if it was realistic then you would be playing real life on your computer.

MMOs seem to be locked into one style of late medieval inspired high fantasy though. There is actually very little difference between WoW, Rift and (at first sight) GW2 in terms of their settings. Yes, you can argue that actually everything in GW2 is different from everything in WoW ... but I would say that everything is a little bit different. It still boils down to plate armour, big swords and early firearms. If anyone thinks that this is what fantasy is, then I would say that they have a very narrow view of fantasy.

It saddens me that while some game companies are willing to try new things with the game mechanics, few seem to be daring to do much different with the setting. If fantasy were hot drinks, all we are being offered is different types of coffee and being told that they are very very different.

Where are the games offering a different style of fantasy? AoC did, but unfortunately the game itself was crap and bombed. I don't see anyone else trying and I think they are wrong not to. All the new MMOs claim to offer revolutionary new game play but a then give you that served up in a setting very similar to WoW.

Just wait till entertainment gets back to the scifi-theme I think we are currently in the fantasy-theme, according to games and movies that are being released.

But we will see everything once its released.

I would say that MMO players are not typical of film goers. Yes, fantasy MMOs seem to be more popular overall than sci fi ones. With film, it's the other way round. There are very few mainstream fantasy films made (by which I mean ones which are not straight to dvd and made on a budget that would not pay for the catering on the average Hollywood production). The few that have been successful, are exceptions not the norm. Sci fi, on the other hand, is big business and has been as long as film has been around.

[Lars]

Tbh, I'd say AoC with Hiboria was far more standard as fantasy goes than the general MMO world. Looking at fantasy outside of games firearms are far more often an exception than a rule.
Yes, in MMOs they seem to far more often have them. And I see where you're coming from as well.
The problem is presenting the different worlds or societies i exiting ways for gamers.

Which is very, very hard. Most gamers I believe would rather play a game with both swords and guns. Than one with just swords. Don't ask me why, just a feeling I have.
But making up an exciting world and then presenting it good. Well, shit's harsh. And tbh, Games are far better than most mainstream fantasy litterature at being different.

Yes, an MMO with a fully original world would be exiting as hell. But I seriously don't see any MMO really pulling that off ever. (AoC most def. did not do it since they went and made a game around a character older than LotR).

I do understand your point, I just don't really find it that relevant.
As long as the lore and world is solid (I'd say it really is).
The game works. And it suits roleplaying.
For an MMO? I am game.

As for suiting roleplaying. I'd say when it is released there won't be any other MMO that even gets close, even if dueling isn't implemented until the first patch. Or if there isn't a custom emote system.

That I base on the fact that you'll have a "civilian" outfit. That you can equip by the press of a button. Not taking bagspace. You'll be able to have barbrawls through more than just emotes of "/e throws a punch towards ... jaw" But actual rules for it through minigames. With a pint of mead giving you new skills to use.
There is an ingame sport, and another minigame for archery contests.

Finaly. All skills. ALL, are usable without a target. Gone are the days of emotefights where you just stand around. Even if it's not a real fight VIEWERS will be able to see stuff happening.

[Akesha]

Yes, an MMO with a fully original world would be exiting as hell. But I seriously don't see any MMO really pulling that off ever. (AoC most def. did not do it since they went and made a game around a character older than LotR).

I do understand your point, I just don't really find it that relevant.
As long as the lore and world is solid (I'd say it really is).
The game works. And it suits roleplaying.
For an MMO? I am game.

I'm not asking for 'original' (hell, I'm playing a Star Wars MMO right now), but I am asking for a fantasy game where the setting is different from others out there. I don't mean cosmetically different, I mean actually different, otherwise what is the point? You argue that MMO's are different from mainstream fantasy novels etc. That doesn't interest me at all. I can count the number of fantasy novels I've read on the fingers of one hand (and they were all written by Tolkien). I am comparing GW2 with other fantasy MMOs, not books, films or any other media. When you compare it with other MMOs, it looks very samey.

To me this is absolutely relevant to whether or not I want to play a game. It's great that the developers of GW2 are putting in some nice tools for roleplayers, but there is no escaping the fact that their world has totally failed to pique my interest. Warriors with infeasibly large swords, humanoid bull creatures and little cute guys who are good at technology? I'm not saying they have copied WoW or Rift or Warhammer, but everything in GW2 feels like I've seen it before in another MMO and no amount of fancy new game mechanics, no matter how many times anyone trots out the phrase "next generation MMO" is going to make me want to play it. To be perfectly honest, game mechanics don't really interest me that much as long as the game is playable. I'm more interested in the setting, the characters and the art style. Don't get me started on the art style - but female wizard going into a fight wearing ball gowns? Really? What, really?

So, I'll shut up now, because I think I've made my point. This is a thread to discuss GW2 and I've explained why I won't be playing it. Thank you and goodnight

[Lars]

I understand parts where you're comming from. I just don't see them as that valid if the rest of the game is great.
For example, I find the ASura to be... a lame piece of excuse for a rase and I'm fairly certain I'll never touch them. Don't break the game for me.

But, oh well. And at risk of sounding very condesending here, I believe you choosing not to even try GW2 will be your loss. It's about a big a gamble as buying any non multiplayer RPG with the added benefit of it being MMO. (aka, a fee of most likely 49 Euro, if we're unlucky 59).
Then you can try it for 5-10 hours and if it's boring. The world still yars your mind so hard you can't even consider it/what ever. YOu've sill lost less than finding out the same thing about ToR since to even get the first month I believe you had to pay for your sub.

What I'm saying here is, for the typ of game it is, it's production values, and what it will hopefully bring to the table. It's almost to cheap not at least give a spin. Since you might be surprised.

[Garrock]

Im not sure whats the reasoning in wow for gnomes being technology freaks, never really looked into it as in gameplay gnomes are just like everyone else....no additional engineer gadgets.

But in GW asura are using technology to counter their small size and weak body.... so they said.

I think what draws most of peoples interest in GW2 story is the fact that the elder dragons are larger than any creatures in any game so far... largest one in gw2 is easily 1000 meters tall and length is that x5 or x10 depending on if its snakey dragon or traditional dwagon.

the game sets 200 years after original guild wars so we dont yet know any specific about whats going on. So gw1 roleplayers might be the only ones who could be expected to look forward to how their world has changed. Other roleplayers either come because of mechanics or the dragons.  

Atleast i find myself always being intrigued by enormous things, like planets and stars. And dragons and other giant monsters that makes me look like an insect.

All Hail Kralkatorrik, the elder crystal dragon!

(Check the ships next to his sleeping form)