So during math I had the idea..

[Greggar]

Warning: confusion might happen when reading this.

Anyway, today during math, the teacher was explaining that an object always wants to get to it's destination by cutting the distance in half. and again and again.
Now I asked: how can it ever reach it's destination if it always cuts in half?
Teacher: Now that is a like philosophy question. But what Socrates or other philosophic person did was take a dart and throw it against the wall. It did reach it's destination. Even if it always halfs it's distance.

Then I was thinking:
If it always halfs..or..Just makes it smaller in general like: 0,9 and then 0,99, then 0,999... and even 0,9999999999... It will go endlessly. So it's endless here. But if it's endless, it will never reach it's destination. But the dart did reach the wall. And yet math said: 0,9999 etc..

And I thought, But if it keeps going endless but still reaches the wall, doesn't that mean there is actually a limit? A point where the the line of 0,999999..just stops and turns into a 1?
Like:
0,99999999999999999999999999999*(limit/ wall) Bam!-> 1.
Then you might say, how can you compare the enviroment with math?
Well..Why not? If math is used to describe everything and to solve stuff. The enviroment is here as well. Like for example m² is area based.

Why can't we imagen a line of 0,99999..hitting an invisible or visible(wall) and then somehow turns into a 1?
One thing I also didn't get. The math sign: PI, an endless number, used in alot of formulas or excercises. But if you use something endless with another thing. How can it give a solution? It's endless.
So that means there is really a limit. Only we haven't found it yet.
-------------

I can go on like this and such..But just to ask, is what I was thinking all crap or do I make some sense here? :p and if yes, is it already stolen by someone? :p

[Claws]

Umm deep.
Way past my little brain.

Here is another one for you to think on.

Do two lines drawn parallel drawn to infinity ever touch?
Do they  final join at their starting point making two parallel circles?
----------------------->
----------------------->
OO

[Akesha]

Well, here is the flaw in the arguement.

The thing is 1/9 = 0.11111111111..... ie. 0.1 recuring

Then 2/9 = 0.2 recuring and 3/9  = 0.3 recuring etc.

So, 0.9 recuring, ie. 0.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999....... is actually equal to 9/9 = 1

It is true that you can travel by continuously halving the distance, but each halving of the distance does not take the same amount of time. Assuming constant speed, the time taken for each step reduces according to a geometric pregression where the common ratio is 0.5 and the theory tells us that as long as the common ratio is less than 1, the sum of this infinite series will be a finite number.

[Greggar]

Well, imo there is no infinity. As i said at my previous post What might be possible is that they do go straight ahead without touching eachother. But imo it can happen they will form a circle at a certain point but that means the straight line isn't completely straight.

But to get a complete perfect straight line is almost impossible.
Just like infinity..
See this as the line:
0,9999999999999999999999999999999 (almost perfect straight line but still a tiny flaw that will make a circle of itself at some point)

Which can be compared with the dart and the wall. Where is that missing piece that maked it 1?

The dart did reach it's point..But we don't know the destination of a line.. So 1 with a line =perfect straight. But perfection isn't possible according to math because it will keep adding a 9 to the enormous collection of 0,9999.. Yet closer to it. But not still not there.

But if the dart somehow could turn into a 1 to hit the wall (else it doesn't reach it) then so could the line. But how?

[Greggar]

Hmm..Sounds interestign Akesha never thought math interests me like this x_x

[Akesha]

Infinity is more of a concept than an actual number. Let me give you an example;

There are obviously fewer whole numbers, than there are actual numbers. Given any two whole numbers, 3 and 4 say, I can think of lots of other numbers which lie between them, like 3.1, 3. 5, 3.67 etc

Now, there are an infinite number of whole numbers, and an infinite number of numbers ... but, there are more numbers than there are whole numbers. Therefore we must conclude that some infinities are bigger than others, despite both being infinite.

To put it another way, it is possible to choose an infinite subset of an infinite set, meaning that if I have an infinite number of things to choose from, I can choose an infinite number of them, without choosing them all.

[Greggar]

Hmm tough one.. But if we can keep adding numbers..How come 3 did go to 4? If there is an 'infinit' amount of numbers between 3 and 4 how come 4 does excist? Because 4 is the end of the 3 series and the beginning of the 4 series to 5.

Unless of course 4 can be put everywhere after 3. And that means we can decide when it's the end of 3?

Which means..We can keep adding stuff by free will. There is always a limit. But we humans keep making it longer by adding more numbers. But always after that comes 4.

Conclusion..There is no infinity..We only make the distance between 3 and 4 bigger. But there is always an end.

Edit: Did I just found something against infinity?

Oh and about 9/9. If you do 1/1 or 9/9 or 3/3 it's always 1. Because imo. If you (part?) somethign with itself, it will always leave a neutral part behind. Which is in this case 1?

[Nergul]

....

[Nergul]

Can ye eat et?

[Tirnak Lynxclaw]

Greggar, don't start it with Akesha, Akesha actually -likes- math and makes a living out of it.. Crazy person...

And yes, Nergie.. Yer can eat et.

[Claws]

I agree with all of the above.
How do i make my brain  work over time even to read that lot.

MORE COFFEE!!!!!

Now for an interlude for those who are completely lost.
Normal postings will continue shortly.

Are rabbits making a come back tour.

What was the last thing the Emperor of Japan said when they dropped the bomb on Hiroshima?
“What the F~@~ was that”.

What did the captain of the Titanic say when he hit the iceberg?
“What idiot ordered the ice for this trip”

What did the commander in charge at Rokes Drift say when the Zulu surrounded them?
“Where the hell did they all come from”.

What did King Harold at the battle of Hastings say?
“I did not see that coming”

What was General Custer’s last words?
“Indians AAAGGGHHHH”

Normal posting will now resume.
(Sorry)

[Typhek]

Hmm tough one.. But if we can keep adding numbers..How come 3 did go to 4? If there is an 'infinit' amount of numbers between 3 and 4 how come 4 does excist? Because 4 is the end of the 3 series and the beginning of the 4 series to 5.

Unless of course 4 can be put everywhere after 3. And that means we can decide when it's the end of 3?

Which means..We can keep adding stuff by free will. There is always a limit. But we humans keep making it longer by adding more numbers. But always after that comes 4.

Conclusion..There is no infinity..We only make the distance between 3 and 4 bigger. But there is always an end.

the distance between 3 and 4 remains fixed, we just chop it into very small pieces. think of it like a cake - you can chop it in half, then quarters.. with a large enough cake and a fine enough blade you could chop it into millionths or billionths. No matter how many pieces of cake you cut from a single cake, they will never amount to more than 1 cake, for more you need to get a second cake (mmm, cake )

Eventually with a cake you will be limited by physics - can you cut down to individual atoms? can you split quarks? With number theory you don't have these physical restrictions - you can split it down into an infinite number of parts which fit in the fixed 'space' between 3 and 4 simply because they are infinitely small.


Claws, in a theoretical sense, 2 parallel lines of infinite length should never meet. In the universe as we know it (or think we know it) we face the idea that space is curved by mass/gravity - even time gets messy. So I suppose 2 infinite parallel lines could be effected by gravity in diferent ways due to the distance between them and appear to curve, eventually meeting.

[Akesha]

Typhek is absolutely right. What we have here is the principle of continuity. Another way to think about it is if you stick two very thin pins into a line. No matter how close together your two pins are, it is possible to stick a third pin in between them.

[Ugluhk]

now I can harass my math teacher even more! yay! oh, and I thought I was good at maths... now I'm just depressed...  

[Claws]

Ahh but.

Curved Space:
The concept of a 'curved space', which is essential for present cosmological models, is logically flawed because space can only be defined by the distance between two objects, which is however by definition always given by a straight line. Mathematicians frequently try to illustrate the properties of 'curved space' through the example of a spherical (or otherwise curved) surface and the associated geometrical relationships. However, a surface is only a mathematical abstraction within the actual (3-dimensional) space and one can in fact connect any two points on the surface of a physical object through a straight line by drilling through it.
Strictly speaking, one can not assign any properties at all to space (or time) as these are the outer forms of existence and it makes as much sense to speak of a 'curved space' as of a 'blue space'. Any such properties must be restricted to objects existing within space and time.
The concept of a distorted space around massive physical objects for instance, as promoted by General Relativity, is therefore also inconsistent and should be replaced by appropriate physical theories describing the trajectories of particles and/or light near these objects.



So There.

I Blame Greggar for all this.