Covenant

[Oznack]

As Akesha didn't mention me above, I just had to reply saying anything, really anything at all, to get my name mentioned

Our first failure was trying to do PVE fully IC, without any voicecom. Months of hard work got us as far as Molten Core, but there we had to give up on both IC and voicecom, but not until we lost our PVE focused allied and fell back to 10-man places.

Our second failure was trying to do PVE casual. It just doesnt work if you want to get anywhere.

Our third failure was thinking that others will treat us as we treat them. They wont. Its a game that people pay to play. You cant expect anyone to do anything that they are not interested in. The moment their interest dies they will disapear. This is fully OK of course, and the remedy is to not depend on any singel individuals to pull the load.

Also, please recall that we had absolutely lovely W-PVP with Covenant, and a few outstanding RP events.. But W-PVP sort of died out with Mischa leaving, and all the sour RP with the tuskfaces sort of killed most RP events.

.. to be continued when I get more time..

Now, PVE failed when we were backstabed not once but twice or more by guilds who broke all our rules but were allowed to do so as we didnt know how to manage without them. Such situation sort of sorted itself as they soon after left our alliance to do their own thing. Notice that this also happened without backstabs, but the reason was always that Covenant was not PVE focused enough for them, and "them" was always some guild who had little interest in RP.
Djazeeb made an awesome work trying to get PVE going by going with a far-less-casual approach, which is probably the only viable solution for PVE. Others, such as Ferlaye, put in an awesome amount of work organizing runs too.

RP events were always on the backburner and was mostly about some member inviting the others to some spontaneous event such as markets and whatnots. TOL, amongst others, did a wonderful work of inviting people to witness their ongoing story unfold and sometimes be active participators. this "leg" of Covenant really kicked off when Mistrunners joined the alliance but has been on a backburner ever since their initial events... Probably because they felt that few others choose to initiate stuff.

W-PVP died when Misha left Covenant but was later (a year later or so) picked up by Koz who managed and directed a multitude of awesome W-PVP events.

So, lessons learned that I would ask of you to consider in a future Covenant alliance:

1. Make sure that every member guild contributes, somehow.
2. Make sure that whatever rules you get pinned down are followed, or kick offenders early before they damage the organization
3. Distribute responsibilities, pass the hats around and make sure that you do not rely on a few good persons to do it all for you.
4. Do not invite guilds that doesnt mix well with the other guilds already in Covenant.
5. Any organization full of RP guilds will have lots and lots and LOTS of drama, make sure you are prepared to deal with it.
6. Make sure that guild-leaders has an interest in the alliance, or you will have to spend a considerable amount of time explaining silly things to people who doesnt really want to know, really.
7. THERE IS NO COMMON SENSE, make sure to define whatever rules you got and keep to them. Lots of people think that as they are paying to play WoW, there is no reason for them to invest a second in anything that does not lead to their personal satisfaction. This is an absolute truth, deal with it.

Thats about it I guess.
oh,
a) dont eat yellow snow
b) stay out of Goldshire

Oz

[Kozgugore]

Also, please recall that we had absolutely lovely W-PVP with Covenant, and a few outstanding RP events.. But W-PVP sort of died out with Mischa leaving, and all the sour RP with the tuskfaces sort of killed most RP events.

I feel offended. ;<

[Greggar]

You weren't there when koz organised all the pvp. So shush there :p

[Norv]

Oh!
Please! I would really like to know Oznack's perspective. Of course it is what he experienced, when he played, not necessarily what others did, when they played. Of course there may have been times and times, and it doesn't change a bit the thing that you Koz are great at organizing WPvP - or any events for that matter! What! I, for example, transfered a 70 on DB only to take part in the Anniversary War firsthand, and it turned out far better than the most optimistic expectations.
Please, I would really like to know what went wrong in the Covenant in the past. Can't do that without gathering views.
I can't answer any yet though, still thinking about Akesha's. Perhaps a name for the PvE wing would after all be good...if for nothing else, for helping people think that RP/RP-WPvP/PvE in the Covenant are separate concerns, and leaving one does not necessarily means leaving the other.

[Claws]

You weren't there when koz organised all the pvp. So shush there :p

*Cough*
Ahh Oz was one of the founders of the covenant and the one before that the Brotherhood.
So I think really he has a right to air his views.
He was not in the tribe then but he was still around with the Orpans and the covenant.
That is If I remember rightly.
(Which is novel now days I can’t even remember what I was doing yesterday).

It was going pear shape before Koz got involved as Oz says unfortunately.
( By that I mean when Koz tried to get it back into some sort of shape with his WPVP events etc he was on too a hiding and a lot of work for him for nothing).
It was also at a time when the tribe was at its lowest which did not help with a lot of older members of the tribe and Covenant leaving for the summer etc.
And the tribe was handed over to Koz and the only help he had was sad old me.

[Greggar]

Ah, I see.

[Norv]

A Covenant forum is up and running:
http://covenant.mattler.de/forum/index.php

Please feel free to take a look and let me know about anything that is needed or wished.
My first priority is now to make as visible as possible the informations about who's who and what they want. The second priority is to find what the raiders want from a planner and set it up as part of the site, unless they want it otherwise.
I suppose the rest will come.

About the who's who and what they want, the forum could use a little number of walls of text you know, each venue could use a sticky saying what they want. Koz, please feel free to take a look
If you could take the time to correct/complete my post, please do so (eventually if you post a full explanation, I will remove mine).

[Kozgugore]

Looks like a good start! Thanks a bunch, Norv. I'll go about seeing what I can add to the whole show soon. Stay tuned for some posts, I suppose. I'll most likely have something up there by tomorrow. Was planning to have another Covenant meeting by next week anyway. Thanks again!

[Loial]

Covenant meeting?
make an RP event for it so all members of the covenant guild can come and meet? 

[Claws]

Nice work Norvis.
Can’t say any more than that Just Great.
But please do not bog yourself down with it.
Any project like that can be a thankless task but you have mine.

[Oznack]

Also, please recall that we had absolutely lovely W-PVP with Covenant, and a few outstanding RP events.. But W-PVP sort of died out with Mischa leaving, and all the sour RP with the tuskfaces sort of killed most RP events.

I feel offended. ;<

Sorry Koz, was abot to come to recent days and all your W-PVP efforts as well as all the PVE efforts of Djazeeb just dont have time to write it yet. Im currently off to a conference which involves lots of cool stuff (java) as well as social activites (beer!), which means Im dead tired when I come home (beer!)

[Claws]

as well as social activites (beer!), which means Im dead tired when I come home (beer!)

Funny how some things never change. 

[Oznack]

as well as social activites (beer!), which means Im dead tired when I come home (beer!)

Funny how some things never change. 

With age, I've come to the conclution that one has to focus on the important stuff in life.

[Oznack]

You weren't there when koz organised all the pvp. So shush there :p

Actually I was still hanging around when Koz organized loads and loads of awesome W-PVP events, I just had not got to that time period yet


Old post edited, enjoy

[Loial]

oh,
a) dont eat yellow snow
b) stay out of Goldshire

Oz

i'd say...
a) eat yellow snow.. might be beer
b) and/or eat red snow... it might be bacardi breezer


anyway... i can't wait to get a raid team up!