Last Post Wins #5

[Lars]

Dan Browns books. Digital Fortress. Deception Point. Amazing works of art.

While I enjoyed the first half of Deception Point (then I dropped it down 3 flights of stairs in sec. School, when I ran down someone had taken it. With my favourite bookmark.
Calling D. Browns books amazing works of art has me doubting your habit in reading good books. He writes outrageous stories in language that doesn't suck. About it. Are his stories enjoyable? Yes, yes they are. Would you read them for the written word alone. No.

[Azolg]

I'll have to disagree with your opinion entirely im afraid.

[Lars]

Well, there is more or less objective critique that can be leveled at language used. Same as a movie can be extremely boring but still a "great film" if you can enjoy a work purely for the cinematography.
Same with a book, and yeah, as said he makes compelling narratives out of bullshit. His writing style leaves stuff to be asked.
While I might have come off a bit snob-ish in my last post I didn't fully mean it. I think you should totally read books you enjoy, but just because a thing is enjoyable doesn't make them amazing.

The Street Fighter II movie can be enjoyable if you approach it as an action comedy movie only loosely associated with the franchise. It is however still, technically, a load of crap.
You wouldn't watch it for the composition or camera work. You'd watch it for tacky puns and bullshit.

Same as I very much doubt you read Dan Browns books to enjoy the written word divided from the narrative. You enjoy the stories they tell. Which is just as important yet there should be a divide between things. And just because the expression used to tell a narrative isn't the top of it's form doesn't mean it shouldn't be influential.
Even if tastes differ and you might personally enjoy how he writes. Maybe you'd read a Dan Book with a bad story just for how he uses English. The major reason I didn't read more of his works after Da Vinci Code and (the 1/3rdish) of Deception Point I read was the language they were written it. Same reason I don't read most crime fiction.
While I have books that were pure narrative drivel of nothing that just oozed magical structure in how they were written.

Mostly to ... try to make some sense in how I separate "amazing" art from "enjoyable" art. For me for it to be "amazing" it needs to both be compelling on a narrative and a language level.

(Also, I found this pretty funny: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/10049454/Dont-make-fun-of-renowned-Dan-Brown.html )

[Azolg]

There's no need to force your opinion on me. All I said was I disagreed with your opinion? Im not entirely sure what you're trying to prove onto me with that explanation. People enjoy things for different reasons, or my opinion that I think Dan Browns books are a creative work of art is wrong?

[Therak]

While I might have come off a bit snob-ish in my last post I didn't fully mean it. I think you should totally read books you enjoy, but just because a thing is enjoyable doesn't make them amazing.

Actually, "amazing" is an extremely subjective word. You can think a writing style is amazing because of how it catches you, and brings you into the story. Or for how well it fits the story he's trying to tell. You definately did come off as snob-ish and condescending in that post.
While there are more or less objective ways to judge skills in language, this isn't a discussion on who will get the nobel prize.
I'd personally call the Dresden Files books amazing, because of how hard it is for me to put them down, and how it catches my imagination.

[Lars]

The only thing I'm trying to influence is the use of language when discussing things that have a set jargon.
Same as I when discussing politics online have to keep reminding most people from the US that the Democratic party over there isn't a "Leftist" party, or on the "left". It's right and only close to center on some issue.
Why I tried to make a point of not arguing the opinion of "I found it enjoyable", just chosen words to describe it that. Same as I find the Drizzt Du Urden books entertaining as *bleep*, yet I know that their literary value is pretty non existent, and the prose is mediocre. They still have a mostly good tempo that keep you reading for the narrative. And they have had other influence, mostly on role playing tropes in video gaming.

Same reason for why I'm annoyed over people screaming about "the graphics" when talking about a video game they find ugly.

[Kozgugore]

Sweet baby Jesus sauce on a sandwich, I'm pretty sure even the usage of language can be about as subjective as people's opinion on Miley Cyrus' ass. I'm almost beginning to miss the time that this topic was about dumb jokes and farts, so can we leave this whole "your view on reality is inferior to mine"-talk behind? Much obliged.

[Groshnok]

Sweet baby Jesus sauce on a sandwich, I'm pretty sure even the usage of language can be about as subjective as people's opinion on Miley Cyrus' ass. I'm almost beginning to miss the time that this topic was about dumb jokes and farts, so can we leave this whole "your view on reality is inferior to mine"-talk behind? Much obliged.

Stop liking things I don't like Koz.

[Srelok]

In other news, I'm finally going to see Deadpool today.

[Groshnok]

Hope you get a good crowd, Sre. The screening I went to was fine and I really enjoyed the movie, but the screening my friends went to was horrible, with people laughing for ages at points where it wasn't even that funny, and they kept yelling out the punchline to jokes.

[Srelok]

Good point.

*packs a machete just in case*

[Rakmal]

You have a megaton of fun to look forward to, Srelok! It's danker than a flooded cellar!

[Kogra Windwatcher]

*hides from the machete just in case*

[Azolg]

.... Did somebody say, Machete? HE KNOWS THE SCORE.

[Srelok]

Machete. Also a great cult movie