Let's Talk Lore!

[Groshnok]

Title says it all, let's have a discussion on the current lore of the game, and where it may be going.

[Rashka]

Ass. It will be going to ass. *sagenod*

[Azolg]

Personally, this expansion - I'd have liked to seen a lot more Kargath and Nerzhul interaction. The interaction you have with each warlord is as follows.

Kargath: Tanaan intro. Brief hello in the arena. Fast-forwards to Arak. One quest where you take on the power of Terokk. The he dies in Highmaul.

Ner'zhul: Few quests in Shadowmoon. Cutscene. Nothing until the dungeon where he dies.

I just felt like they were two very interesting Warlords who could have been fleshed out a LOT more.

[Grogok]

For kargath it would seem they initionally intended him to escape from highmaul..but like with all the good stuff they had planned they just pushed it away...for Nerzhul I agree. He barely had anything to do with the horde part of it all..beside the dungeon that is.

[Umaua]

Hmm...yes, warlords on Draenor and we don't really have great impact from the warlords themselves, some yes. But most no.
I mean...Azuka who I have never heard of has much bigger part to play in the ironhorde stuff than Kargath.
Ner'zhul atleast does get much more to do, like calling the darkstar but in the end he has so very little impact to anything. I mean we chase him and thwart his plans rather fast.

[Azolg]

Hmm...yes, warlords on Draenor and we don't really have great impact from the warlords themselves, some yes. But most no.
I mean...Azuka who I have never heard of has much bigger part to play in the ironhorde stuff than Kargath.
Ner'zhul atleast does get much more to do, like calling the darkstar but in the end he has so very little impact to anything. I mean we chase him and thwart his plans rather fast.

See thats what annoys me about Ner'zhul. I just watched the cinematic again to time this. Within 1 minute 10 seconds of summoning the Dark Star, it's gone. Thats right, thats the time elapsed from Ner summoning it to Velen cleansing it. It just feels such bullcrap. The poor guy just got sidelined, and it makes me very upset.

Kargath has such little interaction its uspetting - He's a very cool character. I've got an idea of how i'd have done it, which i'll write down later.

[Grekthar]

The problem is, that Blizzard acknowledged that they wanted to do a lot of stuff with the Warlords, but then decided to not do them. Kargath for instance wasn't meant to get his arse killed in the Highmaul raid, and was meant to last till... well about now-ish. And Farahlon... *sobs quietly* God damn it Blizzard!

[Groshnok]

I really hope at Blizzcon at the Q&A some people will try to rip the shit out of the "demons transcend all realities" thing by talking about what happened to other realities' Kil'Jaeden/Archimonde if they accepted or rejected being part of the legion, what about realities where Velen accepted to become part of the legion ect.

It makes literally zero sense other than to "finally kill Archimonde off for good". Though this was already done well in Warcraft III.

Speaking of Warcraft III, can't all the dreadlord brothers come back again since they can't die without being killed in the void? Honestly, Blizz have shot themselves in the foot with this statement.

[Umaua]

I am....really puzzled by the obsession of killing off all the great content makers that could be used to keep areas and stuff relevant. Somewhat atleast.

Also, I do think scaling is what WoW desperately need. That way they wouldn't neccesarily need phasing so much, yet could change and keep changing old areas or make content to those areas.

Then...thats just my opinion but I found it nice when playing GW2 where scaling was implented in. Though still didn't make the world amazingly dangerous, but less of a joke.

[Azolg]

I really hope at Blizzcon at the Q&A some people will try to rip the shit out of the "demons transcend all realities" thing by talking about what happened to other realities' Kil'Jaeden/Archimonde if they accepted or rejected being part of the legion, what about realities where Velen accepted to become part of the legion ect.

It makes literally zero sense other than to "finally kill Archimonde off for good". Though this was already done well in Warcraft III.

Speaking of Warcraft III, can't all the dreadlord brothers come back again since they can't die without being killed in the void? Honestly, Blizz have shot themselves in the foot with this statement.

I don't understand it either. Because if they do transcend all realities - Then there'd be multiple versions of Kil'Jaeden and Archimonde. It's a mathematical impossibility that the KJ/AM from our reality were the ONLY versions to say yes to the Legion. And at some point Velen would also have said yes.

It's a silly statement, and I agree I hope it's addressed at Blizzcon.

Another thing to discuss: Goblin lore. For crying out loud GIVE Gallywix something Blizzard! The guy hasn't even got his own model in-game! The model in the Seige of Orgrimmar trailer is actually another Goblins model! And by seeing him there we KNOW he's about and actively supporting Vol'jins Horde - So where is he? Whats he doing? In all seriousness, since the Kezan starting isle the only interaction we've had with Gallywix is two paragraphs in a short story "The Blank Scroll". Thats it. -Nothing- else.

It infuriates me that Goblins aren't evolved on past the "I CARE ONLY ABOUT MONEY." That isn't the case; they've evolved somewhat from that. Prime example is Pinchwhistle Gearworks. Instead of decided just to kill the Goblins Kimzee and her uncle actively try to rescue as many as they can. I despise the whole persona of "Money is everything I care about nothing else." Goblins can be a lot deeper than that if Blizzard just tried.

[Umaua]

That dimension transcending of Archimonde and Kil'jaeden...yes, it makes little sense.

Because if they exist in all realities, then how can there be alternate timelines/realities. Or you honestly say they can make only one decision at anytime? Which would actually not make them evil since they have no choice.

And...what if in one reality Velen chooses to join them! He'd become an Eredar lord like them since he was of similar power and become transcended through all realities. Or is his destiny same across realities as well? Which would not make him really a good person, because again...he has no choice.
And if Velen would join he'd have to exist with Kil'jaeden and Archimonde too! There'd be 3 great eredar lords!

So either they are locked to certain fates as they transcend all realities...or they don't transcend all realities.

Oh...also. the whole warlords of draenor kinda throws a wrench to this transcendence stuff as...if they exist through realities, do they not exist through times too? Shouldn't Kil'jaeden know about this Ironhorde and the original horde, is he making two different plans to same spot in time? How would he not know of Archimonde's death if he happens in the past of draenor or in timeless Twisting Nether where it has allready happened since its out side of normal timeflow if he can be killed in the past but still appear in the future.

And if we kill Archimonde in the Twisting Nether in what time does he die? As draenor is in the past, but he has to be in the future for our timeline...so if he dies he dies in the past and can still exist in other times as he has to be in the right times in the timeline where he appears and can appear in the future too. That means Twisting nether is outside of time because of the timetwist of draenor...or its timeless which means he allready was dead and is going to be dead and in the end, still exists in the time he needs to exist. Or as he dies he dies through all the time and realities changing our past as much as any other past...

God this makes my head hurt.

[Gashuk]

I think Blizzard literally forgot they had just made an alternate version of Velen when they decided that evil counter-part, Archimonde, suddenly transcends all realities. It is an epic mind-fart.

Nothing really makes these two characters different apart from their life-choices, it would take some mind-boggling magical nonsense of epic proportions to adequately explain why one transcends realities and the other doesn't and quite frankly, Blizzard seem to just be throwing the 'Magic' card at us and not actually explaining anything and I don't think they ever will, especially now the content has already been released.

"It's a cool boss in a new raid tier, yo!"

-

 "Archimonde is a demon whose demon soul is anchored to the Nether. The Nether transcends all realities. That is all."

I guess this quote is as good as we're going to get to explain the epic difference between Archimonde and Velen, however it still leaves open the idea that Velen -must- have an evil counterpart that would have been sucked into the Nether, and, Archimonde -must- have a good counterpart that didn't, gah!

Conversation going nowhere. Kthxbai.

[Groshnok]

I do think goblin lore will get fleshed out in the South Seas xpac, since its likely goblins will play a big part in it, considering it's their home territory.

Unfortunately, I can't see worgen lore being fleshed out for a long time, if ever. Blizzard has a habit of adding lots of new characters and then realising they don't have time to continue all their stories. It's a shame, considering how great the Gilneas/Silverpine quest arc was on both sides.

Speaking of Silverpine, Sylvanas is now off the deep end since War Crimes.

Ha, remember that, War Crimes? Remember how it looked like significant character development was going to continue in WoD? Ha. What has Sylavanas been doing this past year, being crazy in Undercity? I mean Jesus, that was one story they really should've continued, but Blizz being Blizz, they didn't. I also think it's still a bit early for her madness story to start (we all knew it was going to come at some stage) considering we just finished killing off the former warchief of the Horde.

Oh woops, did I say us? I meant to say Green Jesus. Silly me. I hope they just rope in King Mary Sue to be a background character in future expansions, since I doubt Metzen would let him be killed off, at least not without going the Broxigar way. Get Richard A. Knaak on the phone, we need another fanfiction main character since his last one was killed off!

[Umaua]

Knaak...*Gags*

Also, wasn't green jesus that son of Maedivh and Garona or somethin'?

[Gashuk]

Med'an is like green moses, Thrall is green jesus.