Why I think the World at War chain of events shouldn't be IC

[Gordug Bonechewer]

The World at War campaign conjured by [H]Rargnasha and originally [A]Eloresh was a nice initiative to have the people moaning about wanting more wPvP something to look forward to. However, this series of events was to be taken IC, irrespective of the lore, force distribution and the size of the nations of armies involved.

The Dwarven army in the lore has strong control over Loch Modan, therefore Loch Modan is a green zone, an alliance zone. The Horde butchering their way through for two hours once every two weeks is as unrealistic as it gets, I am therefore calling for the recognition of this event to be taken away, and the PvP actually backed up with credible role-play as well as a main body of role-play, or to be completely ignored due to the fact that is ridiculous.

1) The Horde Army does not materialize once every two weeks to attack some settlements and then disappear - If the chain of events was taken in character surely this would have to be role-played out?

2) Why does an event that has NOTHING to do with role-play, have to impact other role-players and their ability to travel to places which are supposedly "destroyed" by the Horde?

3) Why do people who have no stake or interest in the RP community have an impact on the RP community?

4) Where is the actual alliance army? Ironforge has a population of 20,000 dwarves, in any realistic situation as many of these dwarves would be rallied to defend Khaz Modan, it is both unrealistic and preposterous to assume that thirty people would randomly show up to defend a region the size of Khaz Modan.

5) Who ordered the Horde invasion? Why has somebody went ahead and represented the Horde high command? Surely this can only be considered as god emoting, why can the Alliance players not simply state the Ironforge army of NPC's killed off the invasion?

Conclusion;

While the promotion of wPvP is fine and dandy, I don't see what bearing that has on RP, especially when it has a huge impact as well as several important consequences.

Were the main users of Khaz Modan <The Three Hammers> consulted about this? Were they offered a position in arranging these events? Considering this event has predominantly taken place in the land most accustomed to their guild, surely it would only have been courtesy to actually ask them if they are willing to be plunged into a massive war scenario, as well as potentially putting their plans aside?

Thanks for reading, (posted on two threads, ORB and TTH one).

Peace.

-Ephitos

[Okiba]

mary mother of jesus...

are you -still- posting on this forum?

you can solve your problem with the event far easier, and without a long winded block of text.

If you dont like an event, dont attend.

[Gordug Bonechewer]

The event indirectly affects my role-play in Khaz Modan, rendering "not attending" something I cannot do. Should this be declared OOC, then grand, fine by me, have your fights and enjoy them, but why can they not be more like the anniversary battles, completely OOC and fun, rather than IC with as they currently are.

[Okiba]

or you know, your roleplay could be directly effected by the events.

stuff works both ways, and thanks for the heads up that your back in TTH o/

[Gordug Bonechewer]

Nay, the Horde invasion uses the surrounding landscape. Presumably ransacking everything in it's path, and as such the role-play conducted is directly affected.

Consider it if a really obviously OOC raid marched around Durotar, then made a three line post describing how it was IC.

The same when Goon Squad "conquered" Orgrimmar and renamed it Goongrimmar, this was ignored because it was silly, but also due to the fact that this affected everybody's role-play. The invasion of dwarven land affects everybody's role-play.

Sure, seek me out on Gilran, Cíd, Cyrik, Spyre or Dragne!

[Okiba]

...

[Vashnarz]

Krogon best to just leave it.

However Ephitos i don't understand your thought pattern here. Surely if you had a problem with the World at War event it would have been more constructive to disguss it with the organisers themselves instead of posting this long winded post. However I will take a moment an try to disguss some of the points

Why does an event that has NOTHING to do with role-play, have to impact other role-players. Warcraft is at a constant war of course this has something to do with role-play.

Why do people who have no stake or interest in the RP community have an impact on the RP community? : No idea what you mean by this confused me a little.

Where is the actual alliance army? Ironforge has a population of 20,000 dwarves, in any realistic situation as many of these dwarves would be rallied to defend Khaz Modan, it is both unrealistic and preposterous to assume that thirty people would randomly show up to defend a region the size of Khaz Modan. : For this one I don't entirely know if 20,000 dwarves could fit into ironforge however I could be wrong and if there is solid proof that there that many dwarves then i can understand this. However I don't think every person living in Ironforge would be a fighter. Most would be civilians

Who ordered the Horde invasion? Why has somebody went ahead and represented the Horde high command? Surely this can only be considered as god emoting, why can the Alliance players not simply state the Ironforge army of NPC's killed off the invasion?
Because I am pretty sure alot of roleplayers are happy with these events. Enjoy a night to sit back a little pvp RP a bit and enjoy themselves.

The other questions you will need to ask Rarg or even Eloresh about it. But again il just say that the wall of text on both fourms was not needed surely speaking to the individuals would of been more constructive.

[Gordug Bonechewer]

This post was brought up in a discussion format to hear the opinions of other people.

Warcraft is at a constant war of course this has something to do with role-play.

Except that would defeat the purpose having OOC and IC.

Why do people who have no stake or interest in the RP community have an impact on the RP community?

The people present at these events in the majority are not part of the role-play community and are just random OOCer's, why do their actions impact the role-playing scenario of actual role-players?

For this one I don't entirely know if 20,000 dwarves could fit into ironforge however I could be wrong and if there is solid proof that there that many dwarves then i can understand this. However I don't think every person living in Ironforge would be a fighter. Most would be civilians

http://www.wowwiki.com/Ironforge

Type   Capital, city
Population   20,000
Races    Ironforge dwarf (17,400)
Gnome (2,000)
Human (400)
Wildhammer dwarf (200)
Dark Iron dwarf 
Night elf

I was off by a bit, my bad. Did you see what happened in Vietnam when the US occupied the country? Or perhaps even now in Afghanistan? The civilians were given guns, and engaged very merrily into combat. The Ironforge Army in lore is still ten times bigger than whatever amount of players that can be assembled, if the population is 17,400 of dwarves in Ironforge then there is probably a fair couple of thousand of them as soldiers.

Because I am pretty sure alot of roleplayers are happy with these events. Enjoy a night to sit back a little pvp RP a bit and enjoy themselves.

What makes you pretty sure? I'm pretty sure TTH have declined to take this IC, in what way does that reflect their guild happiness, their entire concept 'dwarves' is being disregarded because some people want wPvP.

And again I ask, why cannot this be more like the anniversary battles where it was a Horde v Alliance clash, but it didn't hold any significance the way this does.

The other questions you will need to ask Rarg or even Eloresh about it. But again il just say that the wall of text on both fourms was not needed surely speaking to the individuals would of been more constructive.

Eloresh more or less quiet, Khendran his replacement is a stubborn old git, and Rargnasha does not handle criticism, so I made two threads instead, one here and one on the TTH forum to gather feedback and opinions regarding this.

[Okiba]

This post was brought up in a discussion format to hear the opinions of other people.

Warcraft is at a constant war of course this has something to do with role-play.

Except that would defeat the purpose having OOC and IC.

Why do people who have no stake or interest in the RP community have an impact on the RP community?

The people present at these events in the majority are not part of the role-play community and are just random OOCer's, why do their actions impact the role-playing scenario of actual role-players?

For this one I don't entirely know if 20,000 dwarves could fit into ironforge however I could be wrong and if there is solid proof that there that many dwarves then i can understand this. However I don't think every person living in Ironforge would be a fighter. Most would be civilians

http://www.wowwiki.com/Ironforge

Type   Capital, city
Population   20,000
Races    Ironforge dwarf (17,400)
Gnome (2,000)
Human (400)
Wildhammer dwarf (200)
Dark Iron dwarf 
Night elf

I was off by a bit, my bad. Did you see what happened in Vietnam when the US occupied the country? Or perhaps even now in Afghanistan? The civilians were given guns, and engaged very merrily into combat. The Ironforge Army in lore is still ten times bigger than whatever amount of players that can be assembled, if the population is 17,400 of dwarves in Ironforge then there is probably a fair couple of thousand of them as soldiers.

Because I am pretty sure alot of roleplayers are happy with these events. Enjoy a night to sit back a little pvp RP a bit and enjoy themselves.

What makes you pretty sure? I'm pretty sure TTH have declined to take this IC, in what way does that reflect their guild happiness, their entire concept 'dwarves' is being disregarded because some people want wPvP.

And again I ask, why cannot this be more like the anniversary battles where it was a Horde v Alliance clash, but it didn't hold any significance the way this does.

The other questions you will need to ask Rarg or even Eloresh about it. But again il just say that the wall of text on both fourms was not needed surely speaking to the individuals would of been more constructive.

Eloresh more or less quiet, Khendran his replacement is a stubborn old git, and Rargnasha does not handle criticism, so I made two threads instead, one here and one on the TTH forum to gather feedback and opinions regarding this.

TTH whine. they Whine when they lose fairly, they whine when their cheating/mid battle rule changing doesnt work, They Whine when their poorly thought up criticsm falls on deaf ears, They Whine when their not included or acknowledged because they whine.

Stop whining.

Attend the events, or dont. nobody said you HAVE to acknowledge them, nobody said you HAVE bend over backwards. Nobody needs to be put out, if you dont want to take part then DONT.

how is that a complex idea to get your head around? If your not interested in these events, just RP in khaz modan like usual.

[Gordug Bonechewer]

I don't understand how the conclusion is drawn that there is whining, any disagreement is considered whining? I have laid out constructive critique and given you a list of reasons why the event is being foolishly taken IC.

Considering I'm not even in TTH, I don't see how TTH are 'whining' by not agreeing to go along with what would be considered lol-rp.

It's not as simple as that, we can't simply ignore Galedric/Khendran coming into Ironforge IC, organizing a war council and declaring there is a Horde army stationed in Khaz Modan and we need to counter that, no, the event itself needs to lose it's IC-tag for it to make sense, otherwise it is completely confusion and just a mind blow, one group accepting it for being IC, one group not accepting it.

Furthermore, are the Red Blade actively participating in these events?

[Rargnasha]

First off; I don't take any offence at this post and some of the points here -are- valid. However, I think you'd learn much from reading the post I've made on the RP and Public realm forums.
That said, you do raise some points which merit answers of their own, which I'll pin down here sometime soon hopefully.

Modify; I don't take offence at some of the questions, but when you start bad-mouthing me and my co-arrangers, you've pretty much walked the path that calls for an ignore, Gordug.

[Rargnasha]

A quick edit
As some orcs have pointed out, the way that you deploy your critismn seem to show that you're not exactly having something constructive in mind, so for now I suggest that you go silent.

As for Krogon, just beacuse Gordug is being an ass, does not mean that you should blame it on the Three Hammers, what have taken place in the past between TTH/DRS and ORB is a thing of the past and we're starting on a new slate.

http://orcsoftheredblade.com/forum/index.php/topic,2947.0.html

As said in the A World of War forum post however, this is not made to force RP down peoples throat. If they do not want to RP it, they are free to do so (Something I've talked with the leader of TTH with)

[Gordug Bonechewer]

No offence was supposed to be thrown your way, and I'm actually on good terms with Eloresh the Spaniard and Khendran from Winland, so I don't think anything directed at them would be either serious nor genuine, if there even was an insult.

As for what I said personally to you, I have had only bad experiences with you pal, boycotting the Blackblood Clan is something I will never forget, and if we were to go by your logic then I ought to ignore you as well, however, I support wPvP and enjoy what you're going for, I just think that ransacking half of Khaz Modan with OOCer's is somewhat, unbearable? Perhaps that might be the right word, possibly not.

I have another question -

The Red Blade do participate in Khaz Modan, what IC sense does it make then to host an alternative RP-PvP event in dustwallow marsh? Surely (realistically) you would be holding ground in Khaz Modan?

I think this event needs to be just that, a series of clashes rather than actual 'campaigns' in territory land. Considering that organizing an actual occupational army would be ten times more interesting rather than merely appearing at one location, fighting, claiming victory and disappearing for two weeks, we all have different styles of role-play, but this event is OOC, and yet again I note that it should remain completely irrespective of the IC universe, with the option of acknowledging it rather than vice versa.

[Gordug Bonechewer]

Here is the link to the discussion on the TTH forum, so far only one reply.

http://forums.threehammers.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2542

[Morgeth]

I think the initial post contains some fair points, since I can relate. There are some IC logic flaws with fighting and conquering a zone that close to a major city, and obviously it'll disturb some RP going on there. Unavoidable. At the same time, as far as I know Rargnasha and TTH have talked about and sorted this between themselves. If you personally want to give Rargnasha some constructive tips or ideas, then I suggest you do that by opening up to the thought that he can handle criticism, otherwise you're simply wasting time.

I don't have to tell Krogon that the blame isn't on TTH, he knows it himself by now.

As for the Red blade participation. I haven't been on a single of these events myself, so I can't say how strong our presence is. What I can say is that it's nothing we organise our guild around. The people that do participate are free to. We've never really tied our members down to our RP focuses. If they want to be elsewhere - even if only for a night - they are free to. How they IC'ly justify their travels is up to them. Be it portals or otherwise.