Poll: Red Blade - Multiracial?

[Kozgugore]

A random idea came up again yesterday that had been subject of some (minor) discussion in the past already: The option of opening up the guild to other races.

First off, I'd like to state that these ideas have by no means been seriously considered yet, so don't go about worrying that the guild will forever be changed as it is already. The guild will, so far, remain orc-only, but I thought it would be interesting to see the views of all our other members on the subject at hand.

The discussion was about opening up the guild to other races, in particular to the races closest to the orcs so that the tribal environment will still be maintained without having to overhaul the guild altogether: Trolls and tauren. This way, the current (rank) structure can still be maintained and even expanded a bit (some ranks have been somewhat inactive so far still) without us having to dismiss the entire guild's past or identity.

So far, I've managed to piece together the following pros and cons.

Pros:

- The guild will be more active again.
Considering the hard-pressed times, OotRB is still rather active for an orc-only RP guild. With more members though, we will, logically, be able to expand our activities and network. This way, we wouldn't have to rely upon any outside guild to create for a true Kalimdoric atmosphere (there have been several tauren guilds that have gone inactive throughout the course of time, and the Darkspears have always been under-represented due to either too little activity or interested) and are reassured of our lasting position of a major Kalimdor guild.

- A more permanent and reliable home for tauren and troll RPers.
As stated above, the tauren and troll RPers have seen the rise and fall of quite a few smaller guilds. By opening up OotRB, we would offer a more permanent and stable guild for them to be in, and still be able to enjoy a fair bit of racial/tribal RP. The races are quite alike, so events, ranks and more can be integrated rather nicely.

- A wider variety of classes.
With above mentioned advantages, we could keep in mind that the new races will bring new classes with them as well. This could come in useful not only in RP situations, but more OOC-related matters too, like setting up dungeon/raid group, battleground/arena teams, being a reliable asset in world PvP, that sort of things.

- More achievements.
Not that it's very important to us as an RP guild to be honest, but I suppose there may be some that could be interested in such a thing. Heathens.

Cons:

- No more guild exclusivity.
The guild has always been known for its home to orc RPers. While it will still be as such, it will still lose some kind of exclusive label of being an orc-exclusive guild if other races will be accepted. While it's merely a matter of prestige, it's still something that ought to weigh heavily with some, keeping in mind the server tradition. "The Red Blades" (or whatever) would simply not be the same as "Orcs of the Red Blade".

- Smaller RP guilds will have lesser chance of succeeding.
While we have seen many smaller guilds of orc, tauren or troll races rise and fall, it was always nice to see them come to realisation and work out, even if only for just a little while. If we are to make OotRB a home for all of these races, these newer guilds will have even less chance of succeeding, thus saturating the (Kalimdor) RP guilds on Horde side.

Of course, feel free to add your own pros and cons as well. Perhaps I can make a concise post here to sum them all up.


There are alternatives as well of course, like the suggestion of creating a sister-guild that would accept tauren and trolls. A sort of "Allies of the Red Blade" (though we'd have a name not as overly cheesy as that, of course). The downside here is that it would require us to maintain and control two guilds at the same time, and that seem like a bit of a hassle. Moreover, people might not be all that interested if it's just a side-project, possibly resulting in it becoming and alt guild instead (which has been attempted by Groshnakk and others before, I believe). On the other hand, it would of course maintain the mother guild's independence and exclusivity.


I reckon I've been giving you all quite a wall of text by now, so the TL;DR version is as follows: Open up the guild to new races, or not? Any alternatives, pros and cons, special thoughts or cheese on the matter? Let your voice be heard, because this is a decision that the community of an entire guild should be willing to take - not just one person!

[Gnash]

I really like this idea. A guild that provides a home for orc-, tauren-, troll- and goblin roleplayers could very well be the best way to go during this time of dwindling numbers. And Kozgugore, you shouldn't worry about new guilds not having a chance -- they already do not have a chance. A good example being the Kajaro Trading Co. which failed directly because of people not wanting to join a level 1 guild. Well... that and most goblins being alts.

What I do want to know is in what way they'll get a place in the guild. My personal opinion is that we'll have to reform the guild's concept to a fairly large degree, since we cannot currently cater to the needs of non-orc role-players. Our rites, ranks and customs are currently not something a troll or tauren can incorporate in a plausible manner in their role-play.

In a nutshell, my vote is yes.

[Thrash'Nak]

I'm a little skeptic about this, i mean it wouldn't be "orcs of the red blades!!!" but "orcs of the red blade.. sorta".. I like to idea of more activity, achievements and use of all the guild rather than just some parts of it. I'm gonna say yes, despite that i'm not really in for it, because yes, alot more activity would be nice. Again i'm new, but i'd gladly see more activity, such as random RP, in the three days i've been in the guild, i haven't seen any random rp, outside events.

[Ragaresh]

While i think the identity of us being an orc only guild is good and we are known for it, the "greater good" seems a bit more important to me than our pride. However reputation is a good thing, for respect and getting new recruits, that shouldn't be our reason to not try new things. There are hardly any (if any at all?) tauren roleplaying guilds, there are troll roleplaying guilds (SGE and Darkspear(?)). I'm sure im not the only one who's wanted to roleplay other races, but it's just not the same as with you guys in Ootrb.

However while i vote "Yes", i do put pressure on the point of not having goblin and the eastern kingdoms races in. I like the idea of Warcraft 3 etc feel, of having a belief in something spiritual, not to mentione value honour in life above all else. Tauren and trolls share those traits with orcs, most of the time anyway. Goblins, Forsaken and Blood elf, just... just would never fit with us.

As a bonus, even the frostwolf clan has tauren and trolls with them.

[Vashnarz]

I have to say I agree with Ragaresh here Trolls and tauren would be a good idea however goblins would not. I do feel OotRB is very good at being a orc only RP guild however allowing other race would be benifial however it would need to be handled with care such as they would need to work there way up as all orcs have done in the past however I can see alot of orcs being skeptical about other races.

However I must put my vote as a no as I feel prehaps it would loose alot of its standing.

[Sadok]

Apologies in advance for a brick-wall of text, but this is a big deal and I'd rather outline exactly why I cast a vote for 'make it so' (bar the irresistable TNG reference).

So I say yes, depending on correct implementation of course.

By which I mean that it is important to reaffirm the Red Blade lore and history to prevent the guild concept being lost. In essence, trolls and tauren would be entering from the bottom in an orc-filled tribe with orcish ideals and orcish past.

This in itself is not a problem, considering how closeknit the orcs, tauren and trolls are depicted as, not to mention the cultural cross-fertilisation as the tauren and trolls begin to accept the dominant orcish culture of the Horde.

Certainly, the Darkspear 'enjoy their alliance with the Horde and support their new allies by revering what they revere.' (source: http://www.wowpedia.org/Darkspear), and the tauren and orcs are depicted as 'spiritual brethren ... No other race shared such a similar outlook on the world, and the shamans of both races met frequently to discuss the matters of the spirit world. The tauren allied with the orcs out of a shared vision' (source: http://www.wowpedia.org/Tauren).

Expanding the remit of the tribe, which is already cross-clan and accepts orcs regardless of class, caste or outlook, is therefore not much of a stretch. To reinforce the orcish values of the tribe whilst allowing troll and tauren applicants, I therefore propose the replacement of the unused Packweaver rank with one running parallel with New Blood for non-orcs wherein the trolls and tauren are assimilated into the pack before entering the standard tribe hierarchy with their Oath of Blood.

OOCly, there's no current niche for Darkspear trolls or tauren (bar the Blackbloods, which has a definite slant towards Fel/Dark Horde). We could help facilitate those RPers whilst providing new opportunities for the guild to evolve. The arguments raised on both sides certainly show that inducting trolls and tauren would give our characters -much- to talk and argue about.

As a visual guide in helping orcs come to their decision, I've also included a small mock-up of trolls and tauren in Red Blade colors.

EDIT: And yes, I think goblins are a little heterogenous and self-serving at this point. Trolls and tauren would be a better first step.

[Mazguul]

None orcs in Orcs of the red blade? No.

The guild size and activity always fluctuates, new games are released, patches come and go. Like the tide there is always spells of dry. It's normal and I've seen it all before.

If the flavour of OotRB stayed, if it was a case of Tauren and Trolls aspiring to become a part of an ORC pack, if they wanted to 'become' Orcs then.... yes. But eventually a 'watering down' would occur if it was not implemented properly.

Still, these are just my thoughts and I'm an old fart who is scared of change XD

My vote: No.

[Gnash]

Racist!

[Mazguul]

No.

I accept the guild will evolve, but I do not want it altered just 'because'. The Red Blades were created for a reason, that reason should stay else there's no point it being the Red Blades  *shrugs*

[Gnash]

Well, as Kozgugore stated in the OP there is a cause -- to give trolls and tauren (and I'm still including goblins dammit!) an alternative to the current 'evil' guilds. Granted, we'll need to remove the 'orcs' from Orcs of the Red Blade, but I'd rather look back on our current concept with satisfaction and move on than squeeze every juice out of it.

I personally don't think some fresh air is a bad thing, since what the Horde lacks the most is the interaction between races. The Gurubashi's stay in the jungle and the elves in Silvermoon and the forsaken in Tirisfal. I'm missing the Horde in the Horde, frankly. Currently we just stick to ourselves and hardly interact with others. Broadening our horizon could simply increase the amount and kind of role-play we have.

[Mazguul]

Look, if there was an option above for 'bloody carefully and over a long time while keeping the guild as close to as it is as possible' instead of 'yes' or 'Hell No' then I would have picked it. But there is not, so it's a no for me. Sorry.

[Gnash]

You don't need to repeat your vote, I'm not trying to convince anybody -- I'm just trying to discuss the idea in a friendly manner

[Kozgugore]

I consciously chose for only two clear options because I didn't want the results to be too divided amongst one another. I'd rather have a clear and final answer from the members on the matter. Seems to be working so far!

Anyway, the point of allowing more races would obviously have some more reasons than just "because". It could, or could not, give the Kalimdor RP a well-needed boost. That's the most appealing idea to me.

Keeping that in mind however, along with the current state of the poll, I'm wondering how you people are looking at the option of the orcs tolerating or accepting these two races in on certain events, at the least. As in, give them an IC chance to travel along with us for events, should there be any interest in that at all? They could still be a part of their own guild, though would get calendar invites and information on where to find us at what time for some additional RP. Would this still breach our exclusivity and thus not be worth a try, or would it be a nice option to at least offer outsiders a glimpse of our more inner circle?

[Gnash]

Don't we already allow that?

[Kozgugore]

Probably in a more active form. As in, inviting people to it openly, ICly. So far, that's only been really done with the Kosh'hargs and a few small campaigns in conjunction with the guilds we used to be allied with, I guess.