What's your OOC view on Garrosh going evil?

[Groshnok]

To prevent the clogging of the poor shoutbox!

[Bamm]

Tl;dr

[Kozgugore]

Words won't even begin to describe my resentment for Blizzard's so-called "writers" with how they mucked his character, along with a whole lot of Warcraft's storyline, up as of Cata and onward. I was mildly enthused when they first introduced him as a morally ambiguous Warchief as the Horde's variant to the Alliance's Varian at first, but because people went boo-boo and didn't like the change, Bliz made a 180 and pulled ye good ole "CORRUPTION"-cliche. So yeah, none too impressed there.

[Sadok]

Had this all typed out, but my internet failed and I'm only able to post it now:

To expound upon what I wrote in the Shoutbox, Garrosh had a slow-burn character arc from TBC to the end of Cataclysm -- he came from being a self-doubting outsider to having his first giddy tastes of war and eventually having the mantle of Warchief thrust upon him before he was ready. It's made clear that while Garrosh may not have all the answers himself, and is absolutely not a good character, he also genuinely has the interests of the Horde at his heart. He's learning on the job, and while he may not do the right thing every time, he's doing it for the right reasons.

This is the Garrosh that reprimands the use of fel-magic in Ashenvale, or is revolted by Sylvanas' behaviour in Silverpine, or inspires Zaela to his side in Twilight Highlands, or who most memorably executes General Krom'gar in Stonetalon for acting dishonorably.

Overlord Krom'gar says: Warchief! I… I was carrying out your command!
Garrosh Hellscream says: My command?
Garrosh Hellscream says: Was my command to murder innocents, Krom'gar?
Overlord Krom'gar says: Warchief… Sir… I…
Garrosh Hellscream says: Am I a murderer, Krom'gar?
Overlord Krom'gar says: No, Warchief!
Garrosh Hellscream says: Then I ask you again: WHAT HAVE YOU DONE!
Garrosh Hellscream says: I sent you into Stonetalon Mountains with an army. Your orders were to secure this land for the Horde.
Garrosh Hellscream says: Instead, you laid waste to the land. Murdered innocents. Children even…
Garrosh Hellscream says: I spent a very long time in Northrend, Krom'gar. I learned much about the Horde in that time.
Garrosh Hellscream says: While there, a wise old war hero told me something that I would carry with me forever…
Garrosh Hellscream says: "Honor", Krom'gar, "No matter how dire the battle… never forsake it."
Garrosh Hellscream says: Overlord Krom'gar, you have disgraced the Horde.
Garrosh Hellscream says: You have brought shame to us as a people.
Garrosh Hellscream says: By my right as Warchief, I hereby relieve you of duty.
*Garrosh Hellscream picks Overlord Krom'gar up by the neck and walks to the edge*
Garrosh Hellscream says: YOU ARE DISMISSED.
*Garrosh Hellscream lets go and Overlord Krom'gar falls to his death*
Garrosh Hellscream says: And you, <Race>!
*Garrosh Hellscream turns to the player*
High Chieftain Cliffwalker says: Wait, Warchief! Please! <Player> was the hero responsible for uncovering this corruption. He tried to stop Krom'gar!
High Chieftain Cliffwalker says: Have mercy, Warchief.
Garrosh Hellscream says: Mercy… Your wife and child were murdered. Your kin wiped out. Your home burned to the ground.
Garrosh Hellscream says: Mercy… Chieftain, on this day I learn from you.
Garrosh Hellscream says: <Player>, Krom'gar's army is no more. Your rank no longer has meaning. If you wish to truly help the Horde, your considerable power could be used in Desolace or in the Southern Barrens.
Garrosh Hellscream says: The choice is yours to make.
Garrosh Hellscream says: Let honour guide you, <Name>. Do not forget that Hellscream's eyes are always upon you.

Then MoP rolls around, and at first, Blizzard's PR line is that it's a return to the Vanilla model of having no big boss for the ex-pac (unlike Illidan, Arthas or Deathwing). Reaction is negative, and they eventually reveal prematurely that the end boss is Garrosh. From that point, it seems like all of Garrosh's character-development is thrown out of the window and his character yoked hard in the direction of chaotic-evil to justify him as a loot piñata.

It would have been one thing to have a well-meaning but stubborn Garrosh be corrupted by Y'Shaarj's heart, causing him to spiral out of control and need to be put down -- just like his father in Warcraft 3. But Garrosh is suddenly inexplicably evil before and after he's under Y'Shaarj's influence, going as far to do completely irrational evil things just for the hell of it -- from attempted genocide against the trolls for no good reason to fucking up Pandaria with the Heart of Y'Shaarj purely for the evulz.

At this point, any pretence or possibility of salvaging a three-dimensional character goes out of the window, until the Hellscream short-story, at which point he's all of a sudden back to his pre-MoP ways and acting with his people's needs in mind. Then the short-story ends, and it's as if it never happened, for everything that occurs in Nagrand up until his death cinematic.

Garrosh's death contains the final line to Thrall: "You made me this way." But really, Blizzard made him that way. Garrosh's inexplicable shifts in character direction don't occur in relation to anything that actually occurs on-screen, be it a character, an event or anything else. He's just one sort of character at one point, then another sort of character at another arbitrary point.

The golden rule of most mediums of narration is "show, don't tell". Seeing something happen is way more exciting than a character talking about it second-hand. But Blizzard do neither, with us having to put our own head-canons and theories together to excuse bizarre shifts in the canon.

Such as this, which has now fucked the WoD lore up beyond all recognition:
https://twitter.com/Abrosiabi/status/607225634301952000

That's right, Archimonde from alternate Draenor is Archimonde from the normal universe, there's only one version of a demon across all realities. How does that even work? Is he our Archimonde from thirty-five years ago? How does this effect the Battle for Mount Hyjal? WHAT IS GOING ON, BLIZZARD?

[Lars]

I'm still amazed at how people expect Blizzard to be good storytellers after all this time. They are mediocre at best.

My opinion is that they should have skipped the corruption fully and played out the civil war angle in full. Doing the last raid of MoP as a pitched battle between the sides where both Garrish and Varian are killed. (Just mirror every boss with different skins).
But that would demand blizzard being confident and good at presenting a story, and they can't have that!

[Bamm]

It was a shame what they did to him. For good story telling you have to buy the books in between expansions .The Christie Golden ones are beyond great as is the War of ancients trilogy by Richard Knaak. Still heres to Garrosh
I posted this yonks ago on the db forums i think.

[Groshnok]

It was a shame what they did to him. For good story telling you have to buy the books in between expansions .The Christie Golden ones are beyond great as is the War of ancients trilogy by Richard Knaak. Still heres to Garrosh
I posted this yonks ago on the db forums i think.

Eh, I don't think Knaak is that great a writer to be honest.

[Umaua]

I should check them wiki's. But I'd remember that the strong Eredar are immortal. And I mean really immortal. So if they die, they'll resurrect in Argus.

Besides...is it too far fetched? I mean Shadow Council is apparently able to bring Mannoroth back, that useless Burning Legion General who's only good at dying...which is another character that makes so freaking little sense. He's supposed to be -the- general of Archimonde's army and so far he's been dying of one freaking blow.

As for Garrosh, I agree....I mean, sure one can just mentally break and become a psychopath but I would've liked him to keep Horde on same path as Alliance. On the edge and dealing shit but not taking shit either.

[Sadok]

I should check them wiki's. But I'd remember that the strong Eredar are immortal. And I mean really immortal. So if they die, they'll resurrect in Argus.

Besides...is it too far fetched? I mean Shadow Council is apparently able to bring Mannoroth back, that useless Burning Legion General who's only good at dying...which is another character that makes so freaking little sense. He's supposed to be -the- general of Archimonde's army and so far he's been dying of one freaking blow.

The point isn't Archimonde being able to resurrect or not, it's that Blizzard have now mandated that all realities share the same Archimonde. Which opens up so many different questions that won't ever be addressed in-game (after all, Blizz never addressed simple stuff like Thrall carrying the Doomhammer all over Draenor and Durotan or nobody else ever noticing).

[Umaua]

True about the Doomhammer.

Archimonde on the other hand....I don't necessarily see it as such a big thing. Those Titans were damm powerful as was Sargeras. Jumping or existing in different dimensions/times isn't too big a stretch. I mean Nozormu(orhoweverthatnameiswritten) exists at every point in time. And his just a creation of the Titans.

Archimonde and Kil'Jaeden are creations of Sargeras who's also a Titan.

Goes to woo metaphysics but its not as far fetched as it first seems.

[Groshnok]

I should check them wiki's. But I'd remember that the strong Eredar are immortal. And I mean really immortal. So if they die, they'll resurrect in Argus.

Besides...is it too far fetched? I mean Shadow Council is apparently able to bring Mannoroth back, that useless Burning Legion General who's only good at dying...which is another character that makes so freaking little sense. He's supposed to be -the- general of Archimonde's army and so far he's been dying of one freaking blow.

The point isn't Archimonde being able to resurrect or not, it's that Blizzard have now mandated that all realities share the same Archimonde. Which opens up so many different questions that won't ever be addressed in-game (after all, Blizz never addressed simple stuff like Thrall carrying the Doomhammer all over Draenor and Durotan or nobody else ever noticing).

From what I've read on the /r/wow thread, from the datamining of 6.2 they've determined that

Spoiler: show

on mythic difficulty players will be going into the Twisting Nether to finish him off, effectively killing him for good. It's still incredibly stupid in my opinion.

[Lars]

For the spoiler.

Spoiler: show

So, will that happen before or after the end of WC3? In other words, since (I believe) the time on draenor is earlier than in the "real" time-line. Wouldn't Archimonde there be the same one that some 20-30 years later climbs mount Hyial to be exploded by Wisps. If he dies before that, will that have happened?

About what Sadok was meaning and the non-thinking of Blizzard.

Spoiler: show

I know their answear: "Maguffin!"

[Umaua]

Well I've allways deemed Blizz stupid for killing off all these "I am freakishly powerful!" enemies instead of having their forces defeated or escaping.

Its just that...when they run out of major players, they have to go through all sorts of mental gymnastics to create more of them. And also they allways then render previous expansions obsolete.