As you all know, we are a member of the Covenant. A collection of guilds and individuals, with as goal to achieve things we cannot if we stand alone. Be it raiding the most dangerous dungeons of our realms, or striking against the alliance together, it can all be found in Covenant. Any Red Blade can go to the Covenant site and sign up. Don't forget to also sign up for the Raidplanner created by Oznack, Ghook and Yorla, so you can join any of the events that is posted there.
Covenant forums (http://covenantdefias.com)
Raidplanner (http://covenantdefias.com/raidplanner)
The Covenant also has an ingame chat channel, called "Covenant". To join it, simply type /join covenant. Please keep in mind this channel is IC, but allows people to chat OOC by using (( brackets )).
And for the first time ever, I have not been able to go to Cov forums becouse there was to many people there at the same time!
Is there a new site under construction?
May I suggest we go with something wiki based to enable people to post whatever kind of stuff they want more or less?
One of the free ones that also comes with forums, security etc is wetpaint.com.
I have taken a look at it, Oz, thanks for pointing to it ingame too. Yes, I suppose it's a good easy choice. I am still waiting however at least for green light from the hosting people, namely Taur Nu Fuin, if not for whatever wishes or expectation they may have from the site or whatnot.
As I said before, I expect this weekend will bring some news about it (presumably a working site).
At least for myself, I have postponed a little business for next week in order to have the weekend for it.
I think a wiki-based section at least could be really nice. Tonight there's a little talk ingame about the upcoming site (19:30 if I remember well), please feel free to join if you can, I'm sure any ideas brought over will be welcome.
Get this when i try to log to Covenant?
General Error
SQL ERROR [ mysqli ]
Can't connect to MySQL server on 'mysql.musicmule.com' (111) [2003]
An sql error occurred while fetching this page. Please contact an administrator if this problem persists.
Quote from: Norviskrall on November 14, 2008, 05:03:08 PMI have taken a look at it, Oz, thanks for pointing to it ingame too. Yes, I suppose it's a good easy choice.
Aye, sorry for repeating myself. The idea behind was to start up the discussion offline too. I am *not* on any mentioned products paycheck :)
Quote from: Norviskrall on November 14, 2008, 05:03:08 PM
I am still waiting however at least for green light from the hosting people, namely Taur Nu Fuin, if not for whatever wishes or expectation they may have from the site or whatnot.
Yeah, if the old site could come alive that would probably be the easiest route of all.
Quote from: Norviskrall on November 14, 2008, 05:03:08 PM
I think a wiki-based section at least could be really nice. Tonight there's a little talk ingame about the upcoming site (19:30 if I remember well), please feel free to join if you can, I'm sure any ideas brought over will be welcome.
Probably still feasting at that hour. The only thing I would like to push for is making it easy for everybody to write stuff so we dont have to have any more administrators that absolutely neccessary..
Yes, Claws, the site went down last month some time, and for the time being it's just... down. :(
How did the meeting go?
Where is the covenant site?
Should I update loreloom to something useful again?
Quote from: Oznack on November 17, 2008, 03:33:25 PM
How did the meeting go?
Where is the covenant site?
Should I update loreloom to something useful again?
Meeting went well I think but others may have a diffrent point of veiw on that.
Site gone walk about into the great void called cyber space.
Loreloom I think will have a place in the new set up so may be yes or there again may be no.
Hope this all clear (as mud ;) ::) )
Afaik, Norviskrall and Algilthas and Fiona of Taur Nu Fuin have something planned for the website. There should be more info about it coming up soon, from what I hear.
Super :)
A few thoughts on Covenant. Feel free to ignore them ;)
Covenant has been around in one form or another for a very long time now. It was created at the time when the original members of OotRB were beginning to hit level 60 for the very first time and an increasing number of them were starting to leave so that they had a chance of experiencing end-game content. OotRB was in serious danger of becoming a guild that people joined in order to have fun while levelling, but left the minute they were ready for end-game.
Officers from OotRB and Second Gurubashi Empire got together to try to address this problem, After a lot of negotiating we created Covenant and persuaded more RP guilds to join us - a raid alliance aimed at providing end-game for our members, so that nobody would ever have to leave us in the future to experience that part of the game.
A great idea in theory, but in practice Covenant simply did not work. I made it possible for people like me to have the occational trip to the simpler dungeons for a laugh, but it never really provided the true end-game experience and people still left.
Now, I believe that the reason it didn't work is that it lost its way. It forgot why it was created in the first place. I have no real interest in PvE, Rehbande had no real interest in PvE and I don't think Koz and the leaders of most of the other RP guilds involved had any real interest in PvE. As a result, we all tried to subvert it and use it for things we were interested in, like RP and WPvP events. This left the impression that OotRB has no interest in PvE and you should look elsewhere if that is what you want.
In the light of experience, I am now of the opinion that Covenant will always be doomed to failure as long as this continues. What OotRB needs (if it is going to hang on to all the new level 80 characters it will soon have) is a genuine raiding alliance which exists purely to provide end-game PvE and is not watered down by other things.
This does not mean that we all have to abandon RP and become raiders, but it does mean that the people who run Covenant have to take their own raiding seriously and be willing to put in the time and effort to organise it properly.
That could mean two tiers of organisation. Serious regular raid groups for those who want to be part of that. Casual groups for those who prefer that approach and even regular PUG events for those who just want to have a laugh at how often we wipe.
However, the minute Covenant says that RP takes priority over PvE, it will once again be doomed to fail. We will once again send out the message that you can't have real end-game if you are in an RP guild.
At some time covenant managed to provide with even 25men dungeons.
The problem was that the main body of the raid were usually from a guild who joined covenant and when they felt that they would be able to raid themselfs - they were leaving. So these who were still staying in the covenant had to gear up new comers - this lead to 100 Kara runs etc., and no progress for the oldies.
i wanna do end game, just as mutch as i wanna RP, thats why i jumped back and forth in the history, i succeded both, but yes, it got tierdsome that i couldan't have both, at the same time, i wanna get to endgame at lvl 80, i whant! but i also wanna RP and be a blade
so if i can... i will help out and try to establish a good team with "real raiders" that are aswell rp'ers , YOU CAN BE BOTH! it's not a problem, you just need to find the core unit of members for it and give the time it needs to progress, you can Rp aswell, you just have to be flexible with the time's and preperations, find a good rythm and days to raid on, that dosen't take the time away from RP aswell
i am willing to Raid and Rp for covenant, if people show that they whant to
At least for the time being the situation is this:
Taur Nu Fuin, namely Algilthas (and Kai actually), provide hosting space for a subdomain on their own paid server. I am dealing with the site itself.
I set up a forum for starters, but unfortunately it is still not available as we speak. I suppose that it will be very soon.
As Akesha didn't mention me above, I just had to reply saying anything, really anything at all, to get my name mentioned :)
Our first failure was trying to do PVE fully IC, without any voicecom. Months of hard work got us as far as Molten Core, but there we had to give up on both IC and voicecom, but not until we lost our PVE focused allied and fell back to 10-man places.
Our second failure was trying to do PVE casual. It just doesnt work if you want to get anywhere.
Our third failure was thinking that others will treat us as we treat them. They wont. Its a game that people pay to play. You cant expect anyone to do anything that they are not interested in. The moment their interest dies they will disapear. This is fully OK of course, and the remedy is to not depend on any singel individuals to pull the load.
Also, please recall that we had absolutely lovely W-PVP with Covenant, and a few outstanding RP events.. But W-PVP sort of died out with Mischa leaving, and all the sour RP with the tuskfaces sort of killed most RP events.
.. to be continued when I get more time..
Now, PVE failed when we were backstabed not once but twice or more by guilds who broke all our rules but were allowed to do so as we didnt know how to manage without them. Such situation sort of sorted itself as they soon after left our alliance to do their own thing. Notice that this also happened without backstabs, but the reason was always that Covenant was not PVE focused enough for them, and "them" was always some guild who had little interest in RP.
Djazeeb made an awesome work trying to get PVE going by going with a far-less-casual approach, which is probably the only viable solution for PVE. Others, such as Ferlaye, put in an awesome amount of work organizing runs too.
RP events were always on the backburner and was mostly about some member inviting the others to some spontaneous event such as markets and whatnots. TOL, amongst others, did a wonderful work of inviting people to witness their ongoing story unfold and sometimes be active participators. this "leg" of Covenant really kicked off when Mistrunners joined the alliance but has been on a backburner ever since their initial events... Probably because they felt that few others choose to initiate stuff.
W-PVP died when Misha left Covenant but was later (a year later or so) picked up by Koz who managed and directed a multitude of awesome W-PVP events.
So, lessons learned that I would ask of you to consider in a future Covenant alliance:
1. Make sure that every member guild contributes, somehow.
2. Make sure that whatever rules you get pinned down are followed, or kick offenders early before they damage the organization
3. Distribute responsibilities, pass the hats around and make sure that you do not rely on a few good persons to do it all for you.
4. Do not invite guilds that doesnt mix well with the other guilds already in Covenant.
5. Any organization full of RP guilds will have lots and lots and LOTS of drama, make sure you are prepared to deal with it.
6. Make sure that guild-leaders has an interest in the alliance, or you will have to spend a considerable amount of time explaining silly things to people who doesnt really want to know, really.
7. THERE IS NO COMMON SENSE, make sure to define whatever rules you got and keep to them. Lots of people think that as they are paying to play WoW, there is no reason for them to invest a second in anything that does not lead to their personal satisfaction. This is an absolute truth, deal with it.
Thats about it I guess.
oh,
a) dont eat yellow snow
b) stay out of Goldshire
Oz
Quote from: Oznack on November 18, 2008, 08:35:42 PMAlso, please recall that we had absolutely lovely W-PVP with Covenant, and a few outstanding RP events.. But W-PVP sort of died out with Mischa leaving, and all the sour RP with the tuskfaces sort of killed most RP events.
I feel offended. ;<
You weren't there when koz organised all the pvp. So shush there :p
Oh!
Please! I would really like to know Oznack's perspective. Of course it is what he experienced, when he played, not necessarily what others did, when they played. Of course there may have been times and times, and it doesn't change a bit the thing that you Koz are great at organizing WPvP - or any events for that matter! What! I, for example, transfered a 70 on DB only to take part in the Anniversary War firsthand, and it turned out far better than the most optimistic expectations.
Please, I would really like to know what went wrong in the Covenant in the past. Can't do that without gathering views.
I can't answer any yet though, still thinking about Akesha's. Perhaps a name for the PvE wing would after all be good...if for nothing else, for helping people think that RP/RP-WPvP/PvE in the Covenant are separate concerns, and leaving one does not necessarily means leaving the other.
Quote from: Greggar on November 18, 2008, 10:06:31 PM
You weren't there when koz organised all the pvp. So shush there :p
*Cough*
Ahh Oz was one of the founders of the covenant and the one before that the Brotherhood.
So I think really he has a right to air his views.
He was not in the tribe then but he was still around with the Orpans and the covenant.
That is If I remember rightly.
(Which is novel now days I can’t even remember what I was doing yesterday). :(
It was going pear shape before Koz got involved as Oz says unfortunately.
( By that I mean when Koz tried to get it back into some sort of shape with his WPVP events etc he was on too a hiding and a lot of work for him for nothing).
It was also at a time when the tribe was at its lowest which did not help with a lot of older members of the tribe and Covenant leaving for the summer etc.
And the tribe was handed over to Koz and the only help he had was sad old me.
Ah, I see.
A Covenant forum is up and running:
http://covenant.mattler.de/forum/index.php (http://covenant.mattler.de/forum/index.php)
Please feel free to take a look and let me know about anything that is needed or wished.
My first priority is now to make as visible as possible the informations about who's who and what they want. The second priority is to find what the raiders want from a planner and set it up as part of the site, unless they want it otherwise.
I suppose the rest will come.
About the who's who and what they want, the forum could use a little number of walls of text ;) you know, each venue could use a sticky saying what they want. Koz, please feel free to take a look :)
If you could take the time to correct/complete my post, please do so (eventually if you post a full explanation, I will remove mine).
Looks like a good start! Thanks a bunch, Norv. I'll go about seeing what I can add to the whole show soon. Stay tuned for some posts, I suppose. I'll most likely have something up there by tomorrow. Was planning to have another Covenant meeting by next week anyway. Thanks again!
Covenant meeting?
make an RP event for it so all members of the covenant guild can come and meet? :P
Nice work Norvis.
Can’t say any more than that Just Great.
But please do not bog yourself down with it.
Any project like that can be a thankless task but you have mine.
Quote from: Kozgugore on November 18, 2008, 10:00:36 PM
Quote from: Oznack on November 18, 2008, 08:35:42 PMAlso, please recall that we had absolutely lovely W-PVP with Covenant, and a few outstanding RP events.. But W-PVP sort of died out with Mischa leaving, and all the sour RP with the tuskfaces sort of killed most RP events.
I feel offended. ;<
Sorry Koz, was abot to come to recent days and all your W-PVP efforts as well as all the PVE efforts of Djazeeb just dont have time to write it yet. Im currently off to a conference which involves lots of cool stuff (java) as well as social activites (beer!), which means Im dead tired when I come home (beer!)
Quote from: Oznack on November 20, 2008, 07:37:32 AM
as well as social activites (beer!), which means Im dead tired when I come home (beer!)
Funny how some things never change. ;) :D :D
Quote from: Claws on November 20, 2008, 11:14:03 PM
Quote from: Oznack on November 20, 2008, 07:37:32 AM
as well as social activites (beer!), which means Im dead tired when I come home (beer!)
Funny how some things never change. ;) :D :D
With age, I've come to the conclution that one has to focus on the important stuff in life. ;)
Quote from: Greggar on November 18, 2008, 10:06:31 PM
You weren't there when koz organised all the pvp. So shush there :p
Actually I was still hanging around when Koz organized loads and loads of awesome W-PVP events, I just had not got to that time period yet ;)
Old post edited, enjoy
Quote from: Oznack on November 18, 2008, 08:35:42 PM
oh,
a) dont eat yellow snow
b) stay out of Goldshire
Oz
i'd say...
a) eat yellow snow.. might be beer
b) and/or eat red snow... it might be bacardi breezer
anyway... i can't wait to get a raid team up!
Following an idea of Algilthas, I have added a "Who's who" thread, that is supposed to be stickied if accepted, on Covenant forums. It would be nice if every RP guild involved presented itself there, so that the rest (and generally people dropping by) to know who they're dealing with. And keeping this information in one place can only be beneficial at this point.
The thread can be found here:
http://covenant.mattler.de/forum/index.php?topic=4.0
We should have a proper presentation there. *nods*
Lovely work!
For the record, loreloom.com is temporary down until I've updated to support the latest Armory. It was going down like crazy and disturbing other services so I had to let it sleep until I got it sorted.
Nice Norvis keep it up doing great job there.
sorry for my stalled work to get the PvE going in covenant, i just had rough weeks behind me and rough ones ahead, also as you might know my acount is even frozen! as my economical resources are for the moment in a short-cutting-solution basis.
dunno when i will be able to start the PvE machine going, so if anyone else feels you can arrange something for the covenant in a short period please feel free to do so. and encourage players that wanna see end game content to get their eye's on Covenant raiding.
P.S All makt åt Tengil! Vår härskare! Och befriare!
Added a raid planner (http://covenant.mattler.de/raidplanner/) to the Covenant (http://covenant.mattler.de/forum/index.php) site. If you think it's useful, then please feel free to use it and report the issues with it on the covenant forums or directly to me, be it bugs or preferences.
Awesome work! Lets hope this puts things into gear!
Nice one Norvis.
Perhaps a direct link added to our site would be good idea?
Please note that, for various reasons, the Covenant site has changed address and hosting, to http://covenantdefias.com (http://covenantdefias.com). I hope it will be a little more understandable and easy to remember. Hopefully, the former address (http://covenant.mattler.de/forum/index.php) will still be available for a few days, but please consider updating your bookmarks accordingly. The registered members may have already received a message with this notification, at the email address provided on the site.
I apologize for the inconveniences that this may cause, but I hope the more or less related changes this will bring along will prove for the best.
i just take a look there, at the new webbadress and outlooks, i like the new look, werry orcish, but all the color makes it look less simple as it is :P but thats just how it looks, it's still a werry easely-navigated webbsite and i like it ;) *thumbs up*
I don't know if low PvE acitivity is still bothering some people, but, as some might have seen, I am quite comfortable with making pick up groups to 'ending' instances and such. I am more than willing to take with guildies (And people from the Covenant as well) if I get a heads up, though, my pugs are a bit more at the whim, but I can try and make them more scheduled if I get enough people who are interested.
I said I can do quick ones. D:
Never asking me. :(
Put yourself more at disposal. ; )
The two-three first time I asked, you were busy. :P
Take me! I can't get any worse... right? :P
covenant is up and running RP and stuff these days aswell? :)
Check the dates Loial :o ;)
Personal not heard from them long, long time.