Orcs of the Red Blade

A New Dawn Navigation:

• Announcement (http://orcsoftheredblade.com/forum/index.php?page=56)
• Fundraising (http://orcsoftheredblade.com/forum/index.php?topic=3868)

A New Dawn: Discussion

Please keep all discussion about Orcs of the Red Blade’s move to Argent Dawn on 9/6/15 to this thread. You can post any questions here, ask for information or specifics, make suggestions ahead of the move, or simply discuss the possibilities that await us on our new home.

If you require funds for a free realm transfer, or wish to donate to our crowdfunding pool, click on the Fundraising link at the beginning of this post. If you wish to view the official announcement, please click on the Announcement link at the beginning of this post, or navigate to the home-page of our website.

Argent Dawn Transfer Checklist:

• If you cannot afford the realm transfer, please post in the fundraising thread as soon as possible, so we can allocate you a free transfer. Our goal is to enable everyone to come with us, so each member unable to pay is only eligible for one free transfer.
• If you have other characters you wish to bring to AD, we recommend waiting for the next sale on realm transfers. These sales usually happen once or twice a year, and offer discounts of 25% or 50% on character services.
• Make sure you secure your character’s name as soon as possible. If it is in use, try ticketing to have it freed up (this should work for any toons lower than level 10 on inactive accounts), or consider using accents or slightly modifying your name (Sádok or Saddok instead of Sadok, for instance).
• Make sure you have sufficient gold, items and valuables on the toon to be transfered before it leaves the server.

Useful fact: Characters at level 81+ can only bring with them 50k gold when transfering, so make sure a character dosen't have more than that, or you'll lose all the gold above 50k. A good idea for getting all your gold over to AD(if you can afford it) would be to split up your gold across your characters and transfer several of them.

It would seem there is no such gold restriction on the guild bank itself, as we'll be transferring the guild as well. So a suggestion would be to have anyone place their excess gold above 50k on the guild bank prior to the transfer, and then returning it once the appropriate character has been transferred over as well. We can just lock the amounts that can be withdrawn for the duration of the move in that case.

Oh. A question about the hopping to another server.

As the guild moves there as well, then as we move ourselves. We need to rejoin the guild right? And I wonder, does the reputation follow through the transfer. Like if you quit a guild and rejoin it, it keeps your reputation with them, right? So does this work or no?

Quote from: Vezara on May 11, 2015, 11:22:44 PM
Useful fact: Characters at level 81+ can only bring with them 50k gold when transfering, so make sure a character dosen't have more than that, or you'll lose all the gold above 50k. A good idea for getting all your gold over to AD(if you can afford it) would be to split up your gold across your characters and transfer several of them.

I think rashka told me that you can buy garisson blueprints with your leftover gold and resell then on the new server for the full amount again.
Please confirm :x

Quote from: Umaua on May 12, 2015, 12:20:18 PM
Oh. A question about the hopping to another server.

As the guild moves there as well, then as we move ourselves. We need to rejoin the guild right? And I wonder, does the reputation follow through the transfer. Like if you quit a guild and rejoin it, it keeps your reputation with them, right? So does this work or no?

We're doing the GM+Guild transfer with Koz. If I'm correct, it'll go something like this:
1- Koz transfers over and brings the guild with him, including the guild bank, achievements, whatever else.
2- A skeleton guild remains on DB, with everyone else on it, but no achievements, whatever.
3- Anyone who transfers over from DB to AD without changing guilds or g-quitting will automatically be in the OotRB guild on AD, along with their rep intact.

The one thing is that preferably, Koz needs to go go first. We should be able to work that out though, as long as people don't transfer until the 9th of June.

Okay, that makes sense. And sounds good!

So no slacking Koz!  :P

Sadok has it in the right there.
The full list of details on it can be found here!
https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/guild-services

So indeed, as long as Koz goes first and no one g-quits, everything will stay the same.

So, perhaps an advisory to do the transfer either later on 9th or the next day. If possible. Or Koz does it early in the day so it's more free'er for the rest.

Our last event on DB is on the 7th. Don't think it will be an issue for Koz to transfer over the day before the move, yeah.

Just a head's up to let people know that in the next few days, we'll be preparing some sort of guide for our members to make sure DB and AD server lore don't conflict.

The move to AD will require us to rethink the scale of our contributions to server lore, but not the actual content. OotRB is always supposed to have been a smallish tribe in terms of the canonical scale of the WoW setting â€" we number in the dozens, rather than the thousands of Frostwolves or Warsongs. But on a server like Defias, all the important stuff is done by only a couple of guilds due to the small population, so there’s a natural subconscious instinct to imagine ourselves as more powerful or prominent than we perhaps -should- be in the setting.

Helping out in the Rebellion is fine, for instance. But if we hammer home too hard that in terms of the Northern Rebellion, we made up half of the numbers and held nearly all the key leadership positions, it does slightly skew things. I don’t think it means we have to retcon anything, but instilling a sense of recognition in our members OOCly that the world is larger than the comparatively small community on Defias may help smooth over some of the more awkward gaps in server lore.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3523212962

This thread is helpful in that regard. If you pick whichever point you started RPing on Defias, then go along the timeline from there, it should illustrate well enough what can fit with no issue, and what may be more problematic to reconcile. For instance:

"[Guild] After in-fighting inside Loa Atal Ai between the Zandalari aligned trolls and the Darkspear aligned trolls, Zaza'jin led the Zandalari aligned on an exodus and for Atal Zanza Aka. The guild prospered in Zul'Gurub for a few months however in June of the same year Zaza'jin went missing and the antu left for different callings. Only old Cobra'zan was left to watch the group slowly descend into dormancy.”

Whereas on DB, SGE have held Zul’Gurub the whole time basically. That’s an issue if you’re an SGE member on AD. If you’re an OotRB member who only vaguely knows about SGE and probably couldn’t tell them apart from Loa Atal Ai, Atal Zanza Aka, would it really be something you’d notice or care about ICly? Probably not. You can handwave it, and if the issue comes up ICly, resolve it ICly -- just like people will have different accounts of facts IRL too.

Likewise, the DB Rebellion stuff largely focused around Ashenvale, whereas the AD Rebellion stuff happened in Durotar. So there's no reason our experiences of the Rebellion can't sit alongside those of the guilds on AD -- we happened to be in two different areas at the same time.

I did not know entirely where to put this..but if it is the wrong place I am sorry and I will move it :)

But the Argent dawn has a rp forum aswell..which also sort of work like a new paper, so I think we can find most of the over all events on that server on it.
It is this one here
http://www.argentarchives.org/
Thought it might help, also for those not known on Argent dawn to figure out what there is, it also contains all/most of all the rp guilds both on horde and alliance side, a long with some char profiles.

Why?
Thats all really.
So we go dump all our friends and people we have played with for 10 years.
All our alts with all our stored up gear.

Why?

If any body is interested I left Argent Dawn and moved my alts to Defias because of the shear lack of RP there.
A few years ago now but still worth a mention.

Quote from: Claws on May 17, 2015, 04:29:30 AM
Why?
Thats all really.
So we go dump all our friends and people we have played with for 10 years.

Why?

The various arguments for and against were discussed in this thread, if you're interested in reading them:
http://orcsoftheredblade.com/forum/index.php?topic=3849.0

This is hard for me to take in.
My own fault i know for not looking on site to air my views.
I know i will not be missed some will no doubt even say good.
For those who do not know me I have put a lot of time in to my toon.
And even to lose her name is hard (Which I would)
even her true name is not available.
It also means leaving behind alts and there trades.

But as my toon says once a Blade always a Blade.
So I guess i will be there to bend ears and may be get back into the Tribe once again.

Quote from: Claws on May 17, 2015, 04:54:10 AM
And even to lose her name is hard (Which I would)
even her true name is not available.

Even though "Claws" is taken, you could always go with "Cláws", which is free. On the other hand, "Kei" is taken by a level one warlock, which should be able to be freed up. I'll make a ticket and update you on this thread as soon as I hear back.

Quote from: Sadok on May 17, 2015, 05:11:34 AM

Quote from: Claws on May 17, 2015, 04:54:10 AM
And even to lose her name is hard (Which I would)
even her true name is not available.

Even though "Claws" is taken, you could always go with "Cláws", which is free. On the other hand, "Kei" is taken by a level one warlock, which should be able to be freed up. I'll make a ticket and update you on this thread as soon as I hear back.

Thanks appreciate that.
Sadly i can not can not type "Claws" with the bit above the "a"

Clâws, Clãws, Cláws, Clàws, mark and copy paste (ctrl + c and then ctrl + v) done deal!

please, accept my gift of ä and å

even if they sound nothing like a at all, but not like anyone outside of Scandinavia is gonna know that.

Easy when you know how i guess  :-*

Thanks Guys and Gals had to go with Clâws could not use others but still happy little bunny Orcet now.

Don't know if you're running on a PC or Mac, Claws, but:

On a PC, to get á, hold down the ALT key, type 0225 on the numeric keypad, then release the ALT key.

On a Mac, hold down ALT and e, then press a to get á.

On my PC it's simply:

é= press ' key, then the letter right away after.
ë= press shift, " key, letter right away after.
è= press ~ key, letter right away after.

Learning as i go thanks for all this info will keep a note of it all  :-* :-* :-*

Question:

What if I refuse to transfer to AD, what will happen to my character ICly? Do I make an event where Nyruk dies or something?

Quote from: Nyruk on May 18, 2015, 02:29:20 AM
Question:

What if I refuse to transfer to AD, what will happen to my character ICly? Do I make an event where Nyruk dies or something?

You're welcome to go your own way and join another RP guild, we're not gonna force people to kill characters off.

Hmm alright. Its just that fact that  I don't really wanna leave since PVP and RP is like both my lungs I need both of them. By moving to AD i feel like I'm stabbing the right side of my chest with a 9 inch knife whilst having 240V of electricity flowing through it. Which is rather painful, which is the same feeling when I leave my friends and the community of DB. Playing with you lot was actually very enjoyable and I learnt a lot RP wise, which kinda makes me sad, like a squirrel working its ass off gathering nuts then storing them over the winter only to forget where it stored them thus walking his head down in shame, that you lot are going ahead with the transfer.

I'll try to find a reason Icly to leave then. Wish you the best for Argent Dawn. Love you.     ::)

Quote from: Nyruk on May 18, 2015, 02:46:01 AM
Hmm alright. Its just that fact that  I don't really wanna leave since PVP and RP is like both my lungs I need both of them. By moving to AD i feel like I'm stabbing the right side of my chest with a 9 inch knife whilst having 240V of electricity flowing through it. Which is rather painful, which is the same feeling when I leave my friends and the community of DB. Playing with you lot was actually very enjoyable and I learnt a lot RP wise, which kinda makes me sad, like a squirrel working its ass off gathering nuts then storing them over the winter only to forget where it stored them thus walking his head down in shame, that you lot are going ahead with the transfer.

I'll try to find a reason Icly to leave then. Wish you the best for Argent Dawn. Love you.     ::)

Best of luck.

Worth noting though that RP-PvP (what I rolled on Defias for) is dead, because the PvPers don't RP and the remaining RPers aren't able to do RP-PvP due to lack of opponents and heavy griefing. Tried to organise an RP-PvP campaign for 6.2, after a lack of leadership elsewhere in the Horde on the matter, and it wasn't going to happen -- we're already talking to people on AD about doing classic Defias RP-PvP.

We should be maintaining some iteration of our PvP-on rule on AD (I'm hesitant to commit 100% until it's official), we're restarting the RBG team, and there'll be as much Arena and BG stuff as ever. So the irony is that this transfer will give us more RP, more PvP and more RP-PvP than Defias can offer us.

I'd also note on the PvP part.

World PvP is pretty nonexistent on AD. But Battlegrounds, Ashran and arena work just as much as on Defias I think. Crowd is bit different but they are still PvPers.

Hmm sounds tempting, but what I keep thinking is that, if BGs/Arenas doesn't happen in a RP/PVP server, what makes you think its going to happen in just an RP server?

They happen because it is the only mode of PvP available since world PvP is not existing.

Also, its about the attitude...I try not to offend, but the people on PvP servers take a certain stance toward PvP that can be sort of "Foamy mouth" that can burn them out of it, while on RPvE servers, majority do it as a fun past time.(Foamy addicts exist on AD too!!)

Another point to AD is that it has many....moderate PvPers? Ones that rate RP as first and foremost, who dislike world PvP and so, have chosen a PvE realm. Because then they can choose when to do PvP and so, it extends their enjoyment of it. They are more willing to go on a battleground or Arena or Ashran, because they know they can leave and have peacefull RP afterwards. Or mindless leveling without risk of being ganked.

Just few more thoughts to share :)


EDIT: I am in no way saying that there'll be overflowing Battlegrounds or arena's on AD. But I know few guilds with passionate PvPers,

Quote from: Nyruk on May 18, 2015, 03:34:59 PM
Hmm sounds tempting, but what I keep thinking is that, if BGs/Arenas doesn't happen in a RP/PVP server, what makes you think its going to happen in just an RP server?

but if they aren't happening on an rp-pvp server anyway, is your entire reason for staying on the server a bit counterproductive? You seperate from the tribe -AND- there is no pvp on a so called rp-pvp server?

Quote from: Nyruk on May 18, 2015, 03:34:59 PM
Hmm sounds tempting, but what I keep thinking is that, if BGs/Arenas doesn't happen in a RP/PVP server, what makes you think its going to happen in just an RP server?

I enjoy BGs and Arena. Enjoyed them when I rolled on a PvE realm, enjoyed them when I was on a PvP realm.

I've just had limited motivation to get interested in them as of late. But RBGs are a really fun bonding exercise, and now that a few core members of the guild who are very PvP-interested are returning now that we're going to AD, it's going to be much easier to get a team running.

Plus I'm not too many wins off my second RBG wolf, and I want moaaar.  ;D

Remember guys, we belong to battlegroups. Our 'instanced' PvP consists of many realms beyond our own, looking at wow-pedia, Argent Dawn is on a different battlegroup to Defias (despite this, I swear I've seen AD natives in Ashran, maybe Ashran is different *flails).

My point is; if your PvP ambitions involve battlegrounds, arena and, ashran please don't fret. It'll be exactly the same and you'll have plenty of hardcore PvPers from pure PvP realms to play against.

Quote from: Gashuk on May 18, 2015, 04:22:13 PM
Remember guys, we belong to battlegroups. Our 'instanced' PvP consists of many realms beyond our own, looking at wow-pedia, Argent Dawn is on a different battlegroup to Defias (despite this, I swear I've seen AD natives in Ashran, maybe Ashran is different *flails).

You'd be correct in having seen AD peeps in instanced PvP, because Blizz actually got rid of Battlegroups a while back -- in 4.0 for BGs and 5.4 for Arena. Now when you queue for instanced PvP, you can get anyone in the entire Europe region in your group.

Quote from: Sadok on May 18, 2015, 04:28:50 PM

Quote from: Gashuk on May 18, 2015, 04:22:13 PM
Remember guys, we belong to battlegroups. Our 'instanced' PvP consists of many realms beyond our own, looking at wow-pedia, Argent Dawn is on a different battlegroup to Defias (despite this, I swear I've seen AD natives in Ashran, maybe Ashran is different *flails).

You'd be correct in having seen AD peeps in instanced PvP, because Blizz actually got rid of Battlegroups a while back -- in 4.0 for BGs and 5.4 for Arena. Now when you queue for instanced PvP, you can get anyone in the entire Europe region in your group.

Interesting! I missed that update; in that case, don't worry whatsoever! You'll still be PvPing with the same people as normal! It's just W-PvP that will suffer (not Ashran), due to the realm tag!

Well I guess you can say its counter-productive, i guess I just don't wanna leave DB. Dunno

Just to add in something, those of you who are worried of losing gold due to the gold cap, - you can buy the garrison scrolls that upgrades buildings etc, - they sell for the same price.

There's been a few minor updates to our guild FAQ (http://orcsoftheredblade.com/forum/index.php/topic,1445.0.html), not the least of which an update on our PvP rules, once we make our move to AD. The changes are as follows:

Quote from: Kozgugore on July 12, 2008, 12:22:47 AM6.1 Does ORB have any PvP rules?
A few, but nothing too strict. Since we have moved from our RP-PvP roots, we have relaxed on any PvP-enabling rules. However, we do still encourage our members to enable their PvP, should we end up in an IC confrontation with enemy Alliance players. We like to keep our RP as open-ended and as realistic as possible, so a little bit of risk involved in our open-world outings is always a welcome change!

So to put it simple, us officers have considered our options in regards to our move to AD affecting our inclination towards RP-PvP, and while we know AD has generally known very different rules in regards to RP-PvP encounters, we would like to keep a certain degree of our "heritage" intact. While there will be no PvP-enabling rule, we hope to encourage our members by enabling their PvP in dangerous zones, such as events that are to take place in enemy territory, or upon random encounters with enemy RP-minded players. It's not something we plan to force upon our members by any means, but we hope to at least create some incentive for our continued RP-PvP reputation on AD!

Feel quite free to give us your thoughts on this!

Well...honestly? I think this that rule/suggestion is meaningless.

Why? You keep your PvP enabled and you draw gankers 98% of the time. AD RPers, even those who like PvP are not attacking randomly...well, unless you want it to turn to just PvP slugging. Which sorry, but I don't see as RP, with the jumping, running and all. That is offcourse an opinion.

But the point is. PvP tag enabled will not draw RPers who like PvP, it draws the gankers or just normal PvPers who don't give two (cencored) about RP. It has to do with the fact AD is a PvE realm, the attitude is different. They want organisation to the PvP, random PvP on AD? Ha, that only brings in the flamewars, whining, griefing and a whoooooooooole big mess of crap that I am not sure even all the officers of this guild want to deal with.

Long time AD resident...I've seen it happen on pretty much every occasion nonorganised or agreed upon PvP has been done.

That is why it is a suggestion, and not so much a rule. :)
We won't force anyone to toggle pvp on if they don't want to, but it's just something we'd like to keep in there if possible. And if it doesn't work out at all, things are easily changed again.

The thing about this "rule" is that it's encouraged to enable it in situations where it -might- make sense. We've had a long discussion (possibly the longest we've ever had) among the officers about this particular rule as it is, and I'm sure it won't be the last we've had about it either, but right now, we've been entertaining the thought of at least trying to encourage some kind of "threat" when we find ourselves in the appropriate situation for it. Once again, it won't be a rule that says "enable your PvP, or else..." but as an experiment, it might be interesting to try. Which is why feedback here is welcome, of course!

I do personally feel that enabling PvP in in-character interactions with the Alliance adds an extra element of danger and immersion. You can duel or emote-battle with Horde players, but without having them on Real-ID, you can only spam /spit at Alliance if you're blue-shielded.

I consider myself an RP-PvPer no matter what server I'm on, and if we're RPing in enemy territory or out in the wilds, the concept of being inexplicably invulnerable to attack from a player in Alliance footman gear when there's no way to do so with an NPC in Alliance footman gear seems weird.

Sure, it makes sort of sense when/if we are dealing with alliance. Otherwise, even if in enemy territory not overly much.

But hey, since opinions were free, thats mine. I think it's mainly useless as events can be either "PvP flagged" or not, depending on the person running it and how much interruption they want :)

Quick question. I have a level 1 Groshnok saved on AD. How long before I transfer the DB Groshnok must I have the AD one deleted so I can have the name?

Should be instant at that level.

Instant, yeah. I've done this a few times in the past.

Thanks!

Notice in advance of the move in regards to the gold cap

As addressed earlier in this topic, you are unable to take more than 50k gold with you if you intend to transfer your character to another realm. If you have over 50k and do wish to bring more over to AD however, you can deposit any excess gold on our guild bank as of today. Withdrawing from the guild bank has been disabled for the time being, and I will make a note of every deposit made moments before I transfer the guild over to AD on the night from Sunday to Monday. So consider that your deadline, if you wish to make use of this opportunity. As soon as you've transferred your character over, you will naturally be reimbursed any of the gold you've deposited. That's a Papa Koz guarantee!

Another notice, this time the final preparations in advance of the move!

When preparing for the realm transfer, please bear in mind the following points:

Addons
If you have a whole bunch of addons (or even just MRP/TRP), it might be a good idea to ensure these 'transfer' along with you. This can very easily be resolved by going into your main WoW folder and then go to W T F -> Account -> [Your account name] -> Defias Brotherhood. There, select your character's folder and copy/paste it to the Argent Dawn folder in the same directory as the Defias Brotherhood one. If you don't have an Argent Dawn folder there yet, you can simply create it with exactly that name and paste your character's folder there. That should be all there is to it!

Gold
As stated in the previous post, withdrawing from the bank has now been disabled, for those that wish to make use of the guild bank's ability to take along an unlimited amount of gold (as opposed to the very limited 50k gold for each character). Make sure to deposit your gold before Monday 0:00 to ensure your gold will travel along with the guild. Once you've made the transfer yourself, you'll naturally get exactly the same amount back. If you happen to be too late to make use of this option, you can also consider a method previously mentioned in this thread by buying a whole lot of blueprints from the garrison vendor and selling them again once you arrive on AD. Do bear in mind that I'm not entire sure if this method has been properly tested, but it's an alternative to the guild bank.

Most importantly: The move itself
To ensure the guild arrives on AD in time (due to any possible queues for Battle.net services), I will be transferring the guild itself around Monday 8 June 0:00. So that's the night from Sunday to Monday, one entire day prior to the officially planned move (which would be Tuesday 9 June 0:00). This is simply a safety precaution, and will leave everyone on DB in a "skeleton guild" throughout Monday. However, this does not mean I expect guild members to travel along with it. As mentioned, the guild's members are still planned to move on Tuesday 9 June 0:00.

You are welcome to move sooner (as of Monday 0:00) already if this is more convenient for you, but I would advise against it both due to there still being an event on Monday 20:30 which I'm sure Rashka would be grateful for people to attend, but also in case the actual guild's transfer to AD has been slowed down in Blizzard's transfer services, meaning you would lose your rank and reputation if you were to transfer before the guild itself will have been moved. To this end, ensure you do not /gquit the guild before you leave DB. You should be placed right back into the guild upon your move to AD, when you are still in the guild upon transferring your character.


That should be all! If you do have any more questions or inquiries, don't hesitate to place them here.

Fixed a little mistake that turned the W T F folder into summer pudding due to forum shenanigans. I do like summer pudding, however..

Also to note. TRP3 descriptions follow realm transfer. I know this since mine still says "Argent Dawn" even if I am on Defias. This only shows to you though, so its no issue. But you just need to reselect the proper profile after the transfer.

A note on the gold - you can buy the garrison building scrolls in your garrison, they sell for the exactly same price. They're 50k in all I think.

Sorry confused not hard i know but there you go.
When we go over and people have a toon already in place with there name.
Does there Defias toon just take it's place or do we have to delete the Argent toon just before the move over.
I have to change my toon name but it's not far of the same thanks to help from others on here.
So I guess I will have to ask for enrollment to tribe when i get there. :o :o

If there is someone with the same name when you transfer over, you get to choose a new name when you arrive. If it's your toon, you should be able to delete the toon in question, and then pick the name of the deleted toon after the transfer

A message from Hikka of the Shatterskull Marauders that I've been asked to share:

21:50:47 [Hikká-DefiasBrotherhood] whispers: You there?
21:50:51 To [Hikká-DefiasBrotherhood]: I am, yes!
21:51:33 [Hikká-DefiasBrotherhood] whispers: i need to log out but i would like to deliver a message for you and all the red blades
21:51:38 To [Hikká-DefiasBrotherhood]: Okey dokey!
21:51:46 [Hikká-DefiasBrotherhood] whispers: aight, pasteing it now
21:52:00 [Hikká-DefiasBrotherhood] whispers: The Red Blades were the first guild to welcome us (not counting elves who picked up us from shores) to the RP community. A real bunch of excellent and brilliant RPers with characters unique and imaginative. I always loved RPing with Red Blades eventhough
21:52:14 [Hikká-DefiasBrotherhood] whispers: ICly Hikka clashed with them few times due to cultural differences and her being a psycopath. It was always fun to RP with them especially as Hikka, as she tried her best to honour the orcs and not upset them by repressing her own unique characteristics
21:52:25 [Hikká-DefiasBrotherhood] whispers: and antics as best as she could.
21:52:35 To [Hikká-DefiasBrotherhood]: That's really nice, thanks! Been very enjoyable RPing with yourself and all the Marauders too.
21:52:44 [Hikká-DefiasBrotherhood] whispers: OorRB was also undistiputedly one of the cornerstone holders of the RP on the Horde's side, and big respects for doing that. The way they made lots of events where other guilds were welcome was awesomeness.
21:52:57 [Hikká-DefiasBrotherhood] whispers: Wether it was was world RP-PVP, RP events (battles) or just RP events like Kosh'harg festival, it was always fun, great oppotunities to RP and good times!
21:53:09 [Hikká-DefiasBrotherhood] whispers: Like I said earlier, Red Blades is full of brilliant and excellent RPers, but two names from RB I have to honour with special mentioning: Sadok and Krogon.
21:53:28 [Hikká-DefiasBrotherhood] whispers: #1 Sadok Sharptongue. Damn Hikka likes that old pervert and his sense of humour made me laugh both IC and OOC many times we have met. A brilliant character indeed! Also I liked when Sadok was brought back alive during the Northern rebellion
21:53:38 [Hikká-DefiasBrotherhood] whispers: (if I remember right), ICly Hikka disapproved this at first but then just let it go and stopped giving a shit, I mean come on, it's SADOK! OOCly that was fun thing to do!
21:53:50 [Hikká-DefiasBrotherhood] whispers: Krogon Devilstep. Hikka always liked the quiet and seemingly calm Krogon, and was fascinated that she never got truly find out what goes inside this orc's mind. Later mentioned also fascinated me OOCly. A Great, great character. Well RP'd, Devilstep, well
21:53:57 [Hikká-DefiasBrotherhood] whispers: well RP'd.
21:54:08 [Hikká-DefiasBrotherhood] whispers: For my last words on this topic I will say this; Orcs of the Red Blade was a unique and excellent guild that brought good times and fun RP experiences through out their history in DB for many, many people.
21:54:21 [Hikká-DefiasBrotherhood] whispers: If Red Blades feel that they want to try new RP opportunities and adventures in Argent Dawn, I wish the best of luck! May your guild flourish and bask in the glory of defeating alliance and making further victories... FOR THE HORDE!
21:54:31 [Hikká-DefiasBrotherhood] whispers: With honour and respect, Hikka
21:54:36 [Hikká-DefiasBrotherhood] whispers: *salute*
21:54:44 To [Hikká-DefiasBrotherhood]: Thank you very much for those kind words! I hope everything goes well with you and your guild and DB in general. It's been a pleasure.

(http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s148/Lemonpie39/RealmMove_zpsrhe7vpiw.png)

(http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/711/996/3bd.gif)

(And for those worried about the guild master: Gakrath thing: That's to choose who becomes the guild master of the skeleton guild that will be left behind on DB. Not the one on AD, as Gakrath is my alt who will stay behind on DB for just a little while longer.)

(https://throughtwoblueeyes.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/tumblr_lkbiyzpi121qdo7yb.png)

WARNING: Before you transfer, make sure to pick up all completed work orders in your garison! I had 21 completed work orders from all my buildings, and they were all gone when I arrived on AD. :(

EDIT: Seems like you only lose work orders from small (profession) buildings.

Anyway, now that the move to AD is well under-way and the moment of possible danger has passed, I'd like to clear the record personally about some of the things that have been going on the last few weeks. There have been a couple of cryptic allusions to certain individuals taking parting shots at OotRB after we announced we were moving realms, and while you've seen a lot of that in our recruitment threads, there was a larger iceberg lurking beneath those waters.

A lot of e-ink has been spilled about how to restore DB to its glory, with one thread opened marketing Defias as "the Friendly RP server". Just want to share how friendly this RP server had become as of late.

For those otherwise unaware, Orcs of the Red Blade have been a cornerstone of the Defias community for nearly ten years, and after a lot of fond memories, we agreed to move to Argent Dawn for various reasons. This was not a cynical ploy or server warfare, but a decision based on the feedback of 40 members and a consultation phase with many difficult conversations, and the pros and cons carefully weighed. We agreed that on balance, the best decision for the future of the guild and its members was AD, but it was not an easy decision by any means.

The crux of this decision, which transformed a realm transfer from an impossibility to a reality, was crowdfunding. I personally felt guilty at the notion of cash-strapped friends and guildees being left behind, and the officer-team considered making provisions without that included would have been detrimental both to the community vibe we've tried to cultivate here and the long-term success of the guild.

The reaction amongst the general Defias community to our move was heartwarming. From PvPers to PvEers to RPers, I've been touched to see so many of them wishing us well, even if we were perfect strangers or worse yet, had disputes in the past. It's those good apples who are a credit to the community, and it's the good people on DB who I'll miss long after the move.

What I won't miss, however, are the fairweather friends in the Horde RP community who have opportunistically turned against OotRB the moment we announced the transfer -- supposed IC allies and OOC friends who we've cooperated with for years, who only now are glad to see the back of us. I'd rather not name and shame directly, so I present the following quotes without their authors, but each one is the GM of a well-known RP guild or other leading figure in the community. These aren't forum trolls, these are the actual people running the efforts trying to get new RPers to Defias.

• "It just becomes clear that OotRB is ignorant to it's own issues, through not having taken the time to actually attempt to view the guild from an outside perspective."
• "Why would we be going all "we're so sorry to see you leave" when quite frankly, we're not. It's a shame to lose roleplayers, but lately I've not been seeing anything good from ORB really."
• "its a shame but tbf orb have kept themselves to themselves for a while so it wont make a great deal of difference"
• "Your officer team is incompetent, your members are a fucking mess. Your guild is a fucking mess."
• "The only thing moving to AD will do for you all is protect you from gankers. If you don't adjust your attitudes to roleplay, you will find yourselves falling apart. You'll be on a new server where everyone is one of those pesky outsiders the majority if you tend to ignore Then you won't last long."
• "We have to get over ourselves a bit and play with the other kids. On AD, RP isn't guild-based. It's random and between everyone from any guild. It's a shame you guys don't want to adjust and be part of that and will instead just run off to "greener pastures."
• "I'd say it's time you people woke the fuck up, but you never will. You're far too stupid to understand something so basic. You've brought all of the shit you get, on yourself."

Half of the criticism was that we did too much. The other half, ironically, was that we didn't do enough. But it's clear enough that it wouldn't have mattered what we did or didn't do -- some individuals would have been unhappy no matter what.

One would get the idea that the DB RP community is some sort of cult from which you must be forcibly excommunicated if you leave. No wonder so many have already left. Indeed, the remnants of the community were so outraged a guild would dare leave, they renamed their chat to "Horde Leaders (OrB Sucks)" then kicked an RP guild's officer from the chat when she dared to invite a former Red Blade who reputation was being savaged, so he could at least defend himself -- reducing that person to tears with nasty OOC whispers.

Oh, but it gets better. Because the emergency meeting held by the Horde RP leaders to try and mobilise after we announced our departure (even though they insist it changes nothing and they wish we left earlier) continued to show where the priorities of the community are:

• Doubting that we'd ever been nice enough to successfully raise money for our members: "Yeah, they can 'raise funds' all they want. Few people are actually going to donate to other peoples transfers unless they're best buds."
• Praying for the guild to split apart: "Exactly. OrB is desolving. let's try to welcome who of them is staying and integrate them as best as possible."
• Outright poaching our members before we're even gone: "I think we all can agree to that. Do we know if there is someway we could approach them before ORB leaves to start the integration?"
  
• More poaching: "It's a bit of corpse flaying, some might say, but not picking up thos RP'ers from OrB would be a damn shame."
• Deciding to not bother RPing with us on our remaining time on DB, despite us inviting them to farewell events: "I personally see little point in even bothering with doing any real interaction with ORB itself, as they are soon gone."
• Posting on our private forums to try and convince people to stay: "Na, just put it out there for those wanting to stay there are other options. I mean as little as a post on the forums or so, or maybe a guild alt for those of you in it if theres any"

Of course, we took reciprocal actions to prevent this, including revoking forum access for some former OotRB members now leading well-known DB Horde RP guilds, and deliberately keeping a little distance from the new Orgrimmar RP hub (although that would have become a necessity either way due to our new cross-realm members who can't visit DB Org).

And you can find the entire log here in all its glory:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7AWJFvzKhIxT0xWWnMyZUlubDA/view

There are also other chat-logs I've been passed from private guild chats where individual members of our guild are mocked and badmouthed, with some of the people in said chat saying they're glad to see us gone while in the same breath wondering if DB can survive without us.

So what's the moral of this story? You can belong to a server for a decade, you can create thousands of RP events for your member-core, organise RP-PvP campaigns, casual RP initiatives, maintain RP guild lists, direct people in trade and chat-channels to RP guild websites and act as a friendly, accommodating ambassador to Defias. And the moment you announce you're leaving, the remaining community have already disowned you, started savaging you with issues they never had the courage to raise prior, and begin planning to overtly poach your members to sabotage the guild.

As someone who has put years of my free-time into this guild, I'm personally annoyed by anyone looking to deliberately undo a lot of the hard work by dozens of people in making this guild as large and successful as it is. You could perhaps surmise that if they spent less time obsessing over the ruin of OotRB and more time on their own RP guilds and initiatives, DB wouldn't be in half the trouble it is.

The one major exception throughout all of this has been Shatterskull Marauders, who have acted fairly and decently as an officer-team. But besides that? Argent Dawn of course is vast, and there is good RP and bad RP, good people and drama-mongers -- but never do such a small number of toxic, bitter individuals wield such influence. That's why I can no longer recommend DB to others on public forums, regardless of the waxing or waning of its RP population.

As this is a private forum, I'd appreciate not spreading this topic any further beyond this thread. But as an officer-team, we've been holding back publicly to make sure our last days on DB weren't marred with horrible drama, and now it's time to stop bottling it in and let it out.

Thanks.

...you should just post it on the defiasRP forum.

Really. It would shut them all up, as they need to be.

I can't help but agree with it all though.

Edit: I would also recommend those individuals have thier alts 'scoured' from our rosters, on both servers.

Quote from: Krogon on June 08, 2015, 11:41:59 PM
...you should just post it on the defiasRP forum.

Really. It would shut them all up, as they need to be.

I can't help but agree with it all though.

I'm not really interested in either an act of reciprocal sabotage or even about 'saving' DB, whatever the end result would be. I'm just content to clear the record with our own members and let them come to their own conclusions.

It'd be easy to go public and start a shitstorm, but that's not really my style, and it's not helpful in our early days on AD to gain a reputation for being involved in high-drama either.

So I would appreciate just discussing it here.

*Picks out whacking hammer and whacks Nograx into the dirt.* AND I USED TO LIKE THAT PIECE OF S***.. Ugh. Ergh. Sad to see them act like that. But hey. Suddenly what I thought of AD is how I think of DB! So something positive came out of it I guess. Just sad to see it end like that.

Its not really suprising really, just a bunch of people clamouring to be kings of a mole hill.

Even if we don't do anything to them on DB, they should be made aware that we are aware, so to speak.

Yoda put it best...

"...This is why you fail."

To be honest, this is something that has been eating at me ever since I first read the logs. I remember sitting in class while I read the logs and I was happy I wasn't near anything that could log me into WoW or I would've gone balistic on a few individuals in those logs. It just saddens me that people can be such backstabbing buttholes. I don't really have any other words for it really. I guess I just feel let down by what were supose to be some type of friendly people. It just reminds me yet again that nobody should be truly trusted.

In the end I'm glad we could get the tribe out of that toxic enviorment and I hope we'll find true allies, like the Shatterskull Marauders, on AD.

Much sad and mad.

Quote from: Krogon on June 08, 2015, 11:41:59 PM
...you should just post it on the defiasRP forum.

Really. It would shut them all up, as they need to be.

I can't help but agree with it all though.

Edit: I would also recommend those individuals have thier alts 'scoured' from our rosters, on both servers.

MFW it gets posted

(http://i.imgur.com/NnoGhN1.gif)

Would be madness, indeed.

I however deffer to Sadoks judgement. We don't need the drama from people who's opinions effectively are no longer relevant.

instead, when they inevitably come to AD. Which they will, Karma will be a bitch.

The officer team has had a lot of discussion on how to handle all the crap we were getting, but indeed, we kept it away from most of you and the outside world on purpose for exactly those reasons.
For myself, I was very upset by all this for several weeks already since we announced our move, seeing I also got a bucket of crap over me personally from some people, but it really shows how close we as an officer team -and- as a guild are that we'll just stick together and help one another.

So, suppose I'll just take this opportunity to say thank you guys, you're the best. Even those of you that didn't know, being so supportive of the move and with the donations and your generally good moods and such, that really lifted my own mood and confidence again.

Let's keep this up guys. <3

Want to make a serious reply now I've read that full chat log.

Wow. Just wow. What a load of elitism and hypocrisy. I'm surprised b some of the individuals making the comments in there too, also. Complaining about the lack of RPers then refusing to try to recruit certain RPers of the ones that stayed behind? I know many in their guilds with extremely flawed or overpowered characters, yet they think they are too good for some of our remainder?  For a group desperately trying to save RP, they're not doing a very good job there.

Trying to re invigorate RP PvP? It's a bit too late for that, isn't it lads? Who the fuck are ye going to RP PvP with? Have they not noticed Alliance is dead? It's funny that they try to flaunt this as a big feature of the realm, considering AD's Whispers of War campaign does have minor elements of RP PvP. Speaking of AD, the way they look down their noses at AD RPers was quite amusing, considering how many guilds have left this server and now make their home there. The fact that they thought ADers would be dicks for a DB advertisement on their forums was very confusing. They'd be up in arms if one started posting on the DB forums.

The blaming of things on ORB. While the splitting of Horde forces in pre WoD had both sides to blame, we have tried our best in recent months to reconnect with other guilds. But it seems as if we're thought of as nothing but insular RP snobs who ignore all others. It seems our efforts to reconnect we're all in vain, sadly. Oh well, let them all band together till one guild becomes the new blame.

I'm happy to see we've disproved their remarks on funding. Our few "best friends" are not the ones who got the money, we've made a hugely successful drive at maintaining a good core membership going into this new server and I am damn proud of this guild for achieving that. We've stood together throughout a time that can often dissolve a guild, as some in that chat thought would happen. I'm very excited for the future of Orcs of the Red Blade and cannot wait for what's in store. Hell, the fact of random RP with travelling RPers is just going to be so amazing after spending so long with only RP in a number of guilds.

I think what angered me the most about that chat log though, was the people in it who would often appear friendly, and some who even wished us well and came to the final event, who turned out to be glad to see the backs of us and spitting venom in that chat log. The elitism shown is baffling, considering the childish antics of some of those guilds members and officers. Nograx and co. turning up like some biker gang to fight Rhonya? Grogglefutz showing up at the send off to fight Rargnasha, who hasn't even been here for what, five, six months? Why even bother doing these things if you're trying to spread the message of DB being "the friendly server"?

It's very disheartening and even upsetting to see people I thought of as friends, and people I thoroughly enjoyed RPing with, so eager to spit this venom, and even with some pretend that the reason this guild is gone from the server is that we were all killed. It's horrible to have such a bitter taste in my mouth leaving the server I loved so well the last year and a half. But do you know what? Roll on AD. Leave these toxic arseholes to wallow here.

I'm sorry this turned into a rant, I didn't mean for it to be so.

I'm actually a bit surprised. I didn't thought DB's reaction would be THAT bad. I knew it was going to be bad but not this bad.

Oh well..
I'm still at your side. It will take a while before I can RP with you again (not as an orc and most likely cross faction) so, again, good decision and good luck!  ;D

Very sad that so many think so little of us, really. :/ And it's kinda wierd how they both hate us, and at the same time make such a big deal about us leaving and how it'll ruin RP for DB. xD I guess when you leave a server, that's when other guilds show their true colors. :/ I also gotta say I'm glad we proved them wrong about the funding thing, and that's really awesome!

The officer team seems to have handled this thing very well, so good work all of you. :)

I wanted to make a longer/better post, but Groshnok already did a good job of saying what I was thinking. xD

Sounds much like religious cults, to which you join for life and if you leave, you matter no longer. All you are is a piece of ¤#&%/

Well don't get me wrong, I didn't know that this was happening to such a degree but I was aware (as I think most were), of our reputation especially since announcing our leave so I am not in the slightest surprised by the logs.

The fact remains that OotRB became an extremely secular guild, as someone who RPed for a fair while outside of the guild as I fell out of love with Gashuk as a character, I can impress that from an outsider's perspective, it can be an extremely daunting prospect to try and intergrate yourself with the Tribe without being in the Tribe.

I see this secularity in two-folds; firstly, it contributes to what the outsiders felt as our 'elitism', we're big, old and had our fingers in most pies with an overwhelming amount of characters, characters in power positions, and chances to create some really good roleplay. And we did. For ourselves.

But can I sit here and slate our officer team for providing an exceptional experience for a huge playerbase with constant events, riveting story-lines and nomadic progression that made our Tribe feel alive beyond any other guild I have ever been a part of? No.

I also refuse to acknowledge that OotRB are 'elitist' in any fashion, because a guild that would raise their own cash to suppliment those that can't afford a realm change, a guild that would accept nearly every single application made providing it's legible and has somewhat a grasp on orcish lore, a guild that would happily spend months and months teaching those who cannot RP how to RP as Newbloods - can simply not be labeled 'elitists'.

Yet the point must be addressed, the reason why our reputation went south is purely because the guild as a concept, didn't play well with others. Yet that is what we're going to have to do a hell of a lot of on Argent Dawn, we will have to deal with plenty of characters that are both alike and completely different to those that we left behind on Defias, so as self-sufficent as we have become (and I cannot applaud Sadok especially for that effort), I do think that the time has come to grow out of our own shadows and be a more social Tribe that doesn't always take the forefront of every situation.

We need to take this transfer as a fresh slate in an RP Community; the Tribe is but one Tribe, a small Tribe of Orcs from different Clans, yet on Defias, we had become more than that. We were the Rebellion Leaders, always the Warlord of -any- Campaign we either came across or forged, we were more than what we could healthily be. I hope that on Argent Dawn we can find ourselves again and hopefully escape the posionous attitudes of those we left behind.

On the tribe often being in a primary position in many events bit. I'll have my say!
I can't speak for anything while Rarg was in charge, or really since after I quit.

However, for a long, long time whenever there was a big event OrB tended to be one of if not the largest. The more time past the more it was like this. I remember events where Undead guilds, elven guilds, SGE and Orb came out in same numbers. Towards Cata this was not really the case. If 1/3rd to 1/2 of all people at a big event is of a single guild that guild will get infulence just because of numbers. Said influence might be undeserved. However any event that wants the group to come must somehow cater to them (or just not care if they show up or not). I can see how that makes people annoyed if they create events.
Then there is the fact that we've had orcs who when not in leadership positions organized HUUUGE events. Both Gnash and Rargnasha have done RP-PVP events for the full server where we orcs haven't always been happy with how things played out.

Often we made events because no one else did.

So on the "sitting back" part. I'm fairly sure that if there are more events to interact with our officers would gladly take some time of in the event and control making. (Even if they are the wonderful people they are and have far to many ideas for events and shit than really is healthy).

-Also, on the hub part. We never were against a hub. We've even said multiple times we'd use it when in the area. And historically we have proof of this. When crossroads was a hub, we spent more time around it. When Guldenjuju had his bar we spent more time there and lots of orcs went there every week no matter where we were camped for the fun.
We just don't want a hub because moving around and making the world feel "big" is a thing most people in the tribe find fun.

Quote from: Gashuk on June 09, 2015, 02:05:14 PM
The fact remains that OotRB became an extremely secular guild, as someone who RPed for a fair while outside of the guild as I fell out of love with Gashuk as a character, I can impress that from an outsider's perspective, it can be an extremely daunting prospect to try and intergrate yourself with the Tribe without being in the Tribe.

I don't personally feel like Zhakiri was ever made to feel unwelcome from an OOC standpoint, and from an IC standpoint, while my character specifically dislikes trolls (this goes back years), I can still recall him at our campfires in Frostfire and Nagrand (he was one of the trolls Sadok disliked the least). I think tension and dislike is part of RP, especially when it develops into begrudging respect or friendship. The only thing I don't personally approve of are people attacking each other wantonly, because that's more a method to forcibly drive people away than create RP.

QuoteI see this secularity in two-folds; firstly, it contributes to what the outsiders felt as our 'elitism', we're big, old and had our fingers in most pies with an overwhelming amount of characters, characters in power positions, and chances to create some really good roleplay. And we did. For ourselves.

I guess this depends on the timeframe you're talking about. Rargnasha-era OotRB was a bit of a power-trip for Rargnasha's benefit, and it rubbed a lot of people the wrong way -- including myself, as I stopped playing twice over that period. Ultimately the reason Rargnasha isn't around anymore is linked to that.

The Kozgugore-era tribe was a lot less hands-on in terms of leading stuff, and I like to think that since WoD hit, we've also been more flexible in that regard. We’ve been involved with most of the major stuff going on like Horde Gatherings and Kosh’harg, we've never been a million miles away from the other guilds and we've often shared camps with them -- and we specifically took the last few months to focus on our own guild plots because of how much we’d been doing with other guilds in the run up to WoD (the Tanaris, Twilight Highlands, Blasted Lands stuff).

Indeed, the Horde Gathering was specifically redrafted by ourselves (and approved of by the others) to remove any leadership role, as it had become too bloated and egocentric for its own good. We invited BWC to plan a cooperative Kosh'harg, but Grim wasn't interested. We invited everyone to Kosh'harg and only BWC and trolls turned up. And I'd been trying to test the waters for a cooperative RP-PvP campaign in 6.2 with no leaders, but that was doomed to fail. Sadok "ran" the Arcane Conclave, but anyone who attended one of those events can attest that it was a facilitating position rather than a leadership position, and almost certainly not done for my own benefit (I hated organising those things).

I think inevitably, there are always going to be some people who are unhappy no matter what we do. Given that some of the negative feedback was that we were too involved and domineering, others were that we’d already abandoned the community. I suppose what they have in mind is that we just freeload of other GMs’ events, but the sad fact is that those people haven’t exactly been reliable themselves.

More recently, the officer team only heard about Exi’s RP-PvP events whenever they were already going, I was around for one of Baji’s social Saturdays and not a single Falling Leaf was online, we held that night with Ashal Anore and only 3 showed up. The Shattrath stuff was done without our involvement, and we've been completely left out of the loop of the recent Orgrimmar stuff (although the AD move could excuse that).

I don’t think it’s a sin that we’ve prioritised our own members over some sense of ‘the community’, when the whole concept of our guild is a nomadic tribal community. Our guild's concept shouldn't warp to the demands of others, just as SGE shouldn't leave Stranglethorn or the elves retreat from Silvermoon because some other guilds want them to. I'm an officer of Orcs of the Red Blade, not an officer of Defias Brotherhood EU. And nor do I think it's a sin to provide a consistent batch of good events over a handful of strange, unpredictable and hamfisted cross-guild initiatives that end up falling apart half of the time.

It is arguably a true criticism that under Rargnasha, he wielded too much power. Maybe some of that residual stink still clings to us. But all of our actions before and since then have been specifically aimed at redressing that, and I don't think it's necessarily fair to equate things in the past six months with things a year or two years back, because they were two completely different ways to run OotRB.

QuoteYet the point must be addressed, the reason why our reputation went south is purely because the guild as a concept, didn't play well with others. Yet that is what we're going to have to do a hell of a lot of on Argent Dawn, we will have to deal with plenty of characters that are both alike and completely different to those that we left behind on Defias, so as self-sufficent as we have become (and I cannot applaud Sadok especially for that effort), I do think that the time has come to grow out of our own shadows and be a more social Tribe that doesn't always take the forefront of every situation.

We need to take this transfer as a fresh slate in an RP Community; the Tribe is but one Tribe, a small Tribe of Orcs from different Clans, yet on Defias, we had become more than that. We were the Rebellion Leaders, always the Warlord of -any- Campaign we either came across or forged, we were more than what we could healthily be. I hope that on Argent Dawn we can find ourselves again and hopefully escape the posionous attitudes of those we left behind.

I think this is a valid point, yes. The Red Blade tribe was always supposed to be a small, relatively unimportant group amongst the Horde. We're not supposed to be the big fish in the small pond, even if that's what we were OOCly. The dictates of our relative size in comparison to a shrinking RP population, and the tendency for us to be the ones organising or involved in a lot of cross-realm initiatives skewed our importance in a relative sense, and AD will hopefully put that part of our concept right.

Believe me, I'm looking forward to AD Horde being large and varied enough to where there's not this massive pressure on us to deliver things for 'the community', and we can kick back and play a hands-off role. As someone that's been in an officer role in OotRB for over three years on and off, I actually hate making events and organising these huge initiatives myself. I don't do it for an ego-boost, I do it because it generates RP for others and gives them enjoyment. So being able to make fewer events and letting others do more is gonna make my own life significantly easier.

So viva AD, I'm looking forward to making some new friends.

I will only address one point in that post because I wholeheartedly agree with the rest of it; perhaps in my own lacking gametime I've missed some of the strong efforts to redress the reputation of the Tribe and I concur that it is not a fair representation of us, just that it is the representation of us. Viva la Argent Dawn, I hope that it does allow us to repropose ourselves as a small nomadic Tribe and allow you guys to have some hands-off time.

Yet;

QuoteI don't personally feel like Zhakiri was ever made to feel unwelcome from an OOC standpoint, and from an IC standpoint, while my character specifically dislikes trolls (this goes back years), I can still recall him at our campfires in Frostfire and Nagrand.

Zhakiri was around as much as I could make him, it fitted his character concept to be a bit of an outcast and a wanderer which meant I could feasibly roleplay an evening with the Tribe rather than the Skulls but this came at a huge expense and affected my relationships in both groups. Whether it was seen or not, felt or not, I know that it was difficult maintaining any significant relationship with the Tribe when I was not actively a part of it; and was part of my decision to make a re-draft of what Gashuk had become because I missed it, a hell of a lot.

Quote from: Gashuk on June 09, 2015, 02:59:31 PM

QuoteI don't personally feel like Zhakiri was ever made to feel unwelcome from an OOC standpoint, and from an IC standpoint, while my character specifically dislikes trolls (this goes back years), I can still recall him at our campfires in Frostfire and Nagrand.

Zhakiri was around as much as I could make him, it fitted his character concept to be a bit of an outcast and a wanderer which meant I could feasibly roleplay an evening with the Tribe rather than the Skulls but this came at a huge expense and affected my relationships in both groups. Whether it was seen or not, felt or not, I know that it was difficult maintaining any significant relationship with the Tribe when I was not actively a part of it; and was part of my decision to make a re-draft of what Gashuk had become because I missed it, a hell of a lot.

I am sorry to hear that, at least. I can't rewrite the past, but in future if Zhakiri is ever a thing on AD, just poke us and we'll be able to make your life much easier on an OOC level -- calendar-invites to our events, etc. We've done this for other unaffiliated members including Moneyfix and Luciouz.

I like to think that we've never made it a policy that you have to be in OotRB to hang out with us or attend our events, so if there's anything in future that we can do to make that easier for others, just let us know.

I am relatively new to this guild, I know next to nothing of it before when I met you lot in Gorgrond.

And this talk of elitism? Seclusion? Taking shit on other players?

I am either blind, or understand those terms very differently.

I came from another server, knew two people in the guild. Yet I was welcomed by people all around. And so far I have seen all newbloods welcomed into the guild, officers going their way to integrate them in. And I do have an examples! Latest being on the ritual hunt where Sadok told me to do his job while he chatted ICly a newblood up.

Secondly...only idiots don't get into this guild. We are open to people who don't know all about orcish lore, people who just mainly show interest, get in. And we accept them on more than just application level! We welcome them in! -Talk- to them, interact with them.

Some hordie walks into our party and we tell him not to bugger off, but to stop haunting there and join!

I have not seen any hints of elitism. Hell, I show tons more elitism when I comment on the applications considering the lore, than any officers have shown so far!

Seclusion comes naturally when you actually want to do something more than sitting in a tavern somewhere. Its periodical. And since especially DB random RP is what it is, it isn't that great a seclusion as people/guilds would be either looking for us or not know we exist.

We have been insular as that's whats guilds do when they don't have a choice. When they are not welcome/wanted/not able to be in one location or with certain guilds.

Thats my view on this.

Quote from: Sadok on June 09, 2015, 02:48:44 PM
Believe me, I'm looking forward to AD Horde being large and varied enough to where there's not this massive pressure on us to deliver things for 'the community', and we can kick back and play a hands-off role. As someone that's been in an officer role in OotRB for over three years on and off, I actually hate making events and organising these huge initiatives myself. I don't do it for an ego-boost, I do it because it generates RP for others and gives them enjoyment. So being able to make fewer events and letting others do more is gonna make my own life significantly easier.

This post is mostly off topic. But highlighted area is why you are ever so fucking unbelievably awesome.

DB to AD themed migration song from the Little Mermaid!



"Look at this AD, isn't it neat?
Wouldn't you think their community's complete?
Wouldn't you think they're the realm
The realm that has everything?

Look at the hubs, adventures untold
How many wonders can the Argent Archives hold?
Looking around here you'd think
Sure, they've got everything

They've got Frostpaws and Blackjaws aplenty
They've got Rotgardes and Irontusks galore
You want belf guilds? They've got twenty!
But who cares? No big deal,
I'm an oooooorc

I wanna be where the RPers are
I wanna see, wanna see them emote-dueling
Walking around on those
What do you call 'em? Oh, mounts.

Casual RP on DB don't get you too far
People are required for active roleplaying
Such as sitting down in a
What's that word again?
Tavern

Though there'll be drama, though some will whine
I'm sure if I stay away from Goldshire I'll be fine
Roleplaying free
Wish I could be, part of that realm

What would I give if I could move
From my home-server?
What would I pay to spend a day
As an observer?
(£17.00 for a realm transfer)

Betcha' on AD, they'd understand
Bet they don't reprimand those demonstrating initiative
Bright young RPers, sick of the toxic remnant of DB
Ready to migraaaate

And ready to laugh at some wacky forum threads.
Reading their questions
And also some answers
Why's AD Horde RP dead :( - what's the word?
Oh, lol.

When's it my turn?
Wouldn't I love, love to explore that realm up above?
Out of DB
Wish I could be
Part of your reeeeeeeeeeaaaalm~"

(Oh wait, I moved here yesterday. Great!)

I can to a degree see how us not getting as involved with other guilds can be seen as elitist, though I'd use the term isolationist instead. We didn't avoid others because we were better then them, but because we wanted peace and quiet. A lot of times in the last years interacting with others have brought a whole lot of drama. Some IC and some OOC.
We've tried organising things for others, and been told we're taking too much control. We've joined others in their endeavors, only to have them not show up for the planned events. Or even asking us to do their planned week instead.
If we did not do anything for others in too long, that too was wrong. I think it's largely a case of our size, and how we were expected to do things, but also one key thing.
People love complaining.
I remember sitting down with a bunch of the Falling leaf, trying to interact with them only to have them all walk off. When I stealthed around beforehand (yes, I do that when I'm waiting for my food to finish, to see what's going on.) they were quite talkative about random things.
It might be hard as an outsider to come in and join a conversation in progress, everyone is guilty of that. And often, the focus will be on those you interact with a lot, rather then someone who does show up rarely. Probably because that someone does only show up rarely. It could be argued that it should be the other way, but in my experience it's not.

We have usually been very welcoming of newbies and new bloods. Those that doesn't feel as welcome are usually the ones who haven't put anything back in the RP, who you need to drag every word out of.

I've found the tribe to be generally welcoming, and quite willing to interact with others. Most of the time, but there's times when there's been too much of it. And we want to be among ourselves. Maybe the tribe in itself is more like an introvert? :D