Orcs of the Red Blade

A random idea came up again yesterday that had been subject of some (minor) discussion in the past already: The option of opening up the guild to other races.

First off, I'd like to state that these ideas have by no means been seriously considered yet, so don't go about worrying that the guild will forever be changed as it is already. The guild will, so far, remain orc-only, but I thought it would be interesting to see the views of all our other members on the subject at hand.

The discussion was about opening up the guild to other races, in particular to the races closest to the orcs so that the tribal environment will still be maintained without having to overhaul the guild altogether: Trolls and tauren. This way, the current (rank) structure can still be maintained and even expanded a bit (some ranks have been somewhat inactive so far still) without us having to dismiss the entire guild's past or identity.

So far, I've managed to piece together the following pros and cons.

Pros:

- The guild will be more active again.
Considering the hard-pressed times, OotRB is still rather active for an orc-only RP guild. With more members though, we will, logically, be able to expand our activities and network. This way, we wouldn't have to rely upon any outside guild to create for a true Kalimdoric atmosphere (there have been several tauren guilds that have gone inactive throughout the course of time, and the Darkspears have always been under-represented due to either too little activity or interested) and are reassured of our lasting position of a major Kalimdor guild.

- A more permanent and reliable home for tauren and troll RPers.
As stated above, the tauren and troll RPers have seen the rise and fall of quite a few smaller guilds. By opening up OotRB, we would offer a more permanent and stable guild for them to be in, and still be able to enjoy a fair bit of racial/tribal RP. The races are quite alike, so events, ranks and more can be integrated rather nicely.

- A wider variety of classes.
With above mentioned advantages, we could keep in mind that the new races will bring new classes with them as well. This could come in useful not only in RP situations, but more OOC-related matters too, like setting up dungeon/raid group, battleground/arena teams, being a reliable asset in world PvP, that sort of things.

- More achievements.
Not that it's very important to us as an RP guild to be honest, but I suppose there may be some that could be interested in such a thing. Heathens.

Cons:

- No more guild exclusivity.
The guild has always been known for its home to orc RPers. While it will still be as such, it will still lose some kind of exclusive label of being an orc-exclusive guild if other races will be accepted. While it's merely a matter of prestige, it's still something that ought to weigh heavily with some, keeping in mind the server tradition. "The Red Blades" (or whatever) would simply not be the same as "Orcs of the Red Blade".

- Smaller RP guilds will have lesser chance of succeeding.
While we have seen many smaller guilds of orc, tauren or troll races rise and fall, it was always nice to see them come to realisation and work out, even if only for just a little while. If we are to make OotRB a home for all of these races, these newer guilds will have even less chance of succeeding, thus saturating the (Kalimdor) RP guilds on Horde side.

Of course, feel free to add your own pros and cons as well. Perhaps I can make a concise post here to sum them all up.


There are alternatives as well of course, like the suggestion of creating a sister-guild that would accept tauren and trolls. A sort of "Allies of the Red Blade" (though we'd have a name not as overly cheesy as that, of course). The downside here is that it would require us to maintain and control two guilds at the same time, and that seem like a bit of a hassle. Moreover, people might not be all that interested if it's just a side-project, possibly resulting in it becoming and alt guild instead (which has been attempted by Groshnakk and others before, I believe). On the other hand, it would of course maintain the mother guild's independence and exclusivity.


I reckon I've been giving you all quite a wall of text by now, so the TL;DR version is as follows: Open up the guild to new races, or not? Any alternatives, pros and cons, special thoughts or cheese on the matter? Let your voice be heard, because this is a decision that the community of an entire guild should be willing to take - not just one person!

I really like this idea. A guild that provides a home for orc-, tauren-, troll- and goblin roleplayers could very well be the best way to go during this time of dwindling numbers. And Kozgugore, you shouldn't worry about new guilds not having a chance -- they already do not have a chance. A good example being the Kajaro Trading Co. which failed directly because of people not wanting to join a level 1 guild. Well... that and most goblins being alts. :P

What I do want to know is in what way they'll get a place in the guild. My personal opinion is that we'll have to reform the guild's concept to a fairly large degree, since we cannot currently cater to the needs of non-orc role-players. Our rites, ranks and customs are currently not something a troll or tauren can incorporate in a plausible manner in their role-play.

In a nutshell, my vote is yes.

I'm a little skeptic about this, i mean it wouldn't be "orcs of the red blades!!!" but "orcs of the red blade.. sorta".. I like to idea of more activity, achievements and use of all the guild rather than just some parts of it. I'm gonna say yes, despite that i'm not really in for it, because yes, alot more activity would be nice. Again i'm new, but i'd gladly see more activity, such as random RP, in the three days i've been in the guild, i haven't seen any random rp, outside events.

While i think the identity of us being an orc only guild is good and we are known for it, the "greater good" seems a bit more important to me than our pride. However reputation is a good thing, for respect and getting new recruits, that shouldn't be our reason to not try new things. There are hardly any (if any at all?) tauren roleplaying guilds, there are troll roleplaying guilds (SGE and Darkspear(?)). I'm sure im not the only one who's wanted to roleplay other races, but it's just not the same as with you guys in Ootrb. :)

However while i vote "Yes", i do put pressure on the point of not having goblin and the eastern kingdoms races in. I like the idea of Warcraft 3 etc feel, of having a belief in something spiritual, not to mentione value honour in life above all else. Tauren and trolls share those traits with orcs, most of the time anyway. Goblins, Forsaken and Blood elf, just... just would never fit with us.

As a bonus, even the frostwolf clan has tauren and trolls with them.

I have to say I agree with Ragaresh here Trolls and tauren would be a good idea however goblins would not. I do feel OotRB is very good at being a orc only RP guild however allowing other race would be benifial however it would need to be handled with care such as they would need to work there way up as all orcs have done in the past however I can see alot of orcs being skeptical about other races.

However I must put my vote as a no as I feel prehaps it would loose alot of its standing.

Apologies in advance for a brick-wall of text, but this is a big deal and I'd rather outline exactly why I cast a vote for 'make it so' (bar the irresistable TNG reference).

So I say yes, depending on correct implementation of course.

By which I mean that it is important to reaffirm the Red Blade lore and history to prevent the guild concept being lost. In essence, trolls and tauren would be entering from the bottom in an orc-filled tribe with orcish ideals and orcish past.

This in itself is not a problem, considering how closeknit the orcs, tauren and trolls are depicted as, not to mention the cultural cross-fertilisation as the tauren and trolls begin to accept the dominant orcish culture of the Horde.

Certainly, the Darkspear 'enjoy their alliance with the Horde and support their new allies by revering what they revere.' (source: http://www.wowpedia.org/Darkspear), and the tauren and orcs are depicted as 'spiritual brethren ... No other race shared such a similar outlook on the world, and the shamans of both races met frequently to discuss the matters of the spirit world. The tauren allied with the orcs out of a shared vision' (source: http://www.wowpedia.org/Tauren).

Expanding the remit of the tribe, which is already cross-clan and accepts orcs regardless of class, caste or outlook, is therefore not much of a stretch. To reinforce the orcish values of the tribe whilst allowing troll and tauren applicants, I therefore propose the replacement of the unused Packweaver rank with one running parallel with New Blood for non-orcs wherein the trolls and tauren are assimilated into the pack before entering the standard tribe hierarchy with their Oath of Blood.

OOCly, there's no current niche for Darkspear trolls or tauren (bar the Blackbloods, which has a definite slant towards Fel/Dark Horde). We could help facilitate those RPers whilst providing new opportunities for the guild to evolve. The arguments raised on both sides certainly show that inducting trolls and tauren would give our characters -much- to talk and argue about.

As a visual guide in helping orcs come to their decision, I've also included a small mock-up of trolls and tauren in Red Blade colors.

EDIT: And yes, I think goblins are a little heterogenous and self-serving at this point. Trolls and tauren would be a better first step.

None orcs in Orcs of the red blade? No.

The guild size and activity always fluctuates, new games are released, patches come and go. Like the tide there is always spells of dry. It's normal and I've seen it all before.

If the flavour of OotRB stayed, if it was a case of Tauren and Trolls aspiring to become a part of an ORC pack, if they wanted to 'become' Orcs then.... yes. But eventually a 'watering down' would occur if it was not implemented properly.

Still, these are just my thoughts and I'm an old fart who is scared of change XD

My vote: No.

Racist! ;D

No.

I accept the guild will evolve, but I do not want it altered just 'because'. The Red Blades were created for a reason, that reason should stay else there's no point it being the Red Blades  *shrugs*

Well, as Kozgugore stated in the OP there is a cause -- to give trolls and tauren (and I'm still including goblins dammit!) an alternative to the current 'evil' guilds. Granted, we'll need to remove the 'orcs' from Orcs of the Red Blade, but I'd rather look back on our current concept with satisfaction and move on than squeeze every juice out of it.

I personally don't think some fresh air is a bad thing, since what the Horde lacks the most is the interaction between races. The Gurubashi's stay in the jungle and the elves in Silvermoon and the forsaken in Tirisfal. I'm missing the Horde in the Horde, frankly. Currently we just stick to ourselves and hardly interact with others. Broadening our horizon could simply increase the amount and kind of role-play we have.

Look, if there was an option above for 'bloody carefully and over a long time while keeping the guild as close to as it is as possible' instead of 'yes' or 'Hell No' then I would have picked it. But there is not, so it's a no for me. Sorry.

You don't need to repeat your vote, I'm not trying to convince anybody -- I'm just trying to discuss the idea in a friendly manner ;)

I consciously chose for only two clear options because I didn't want the results to be too divided amongst one another. I'd rather have a clear and final answer from the members on the matter. Seems to be working so far!

Anyway, the point of allowing more races would obviously have some more reasons than just "because". It could, or could not, give the Kalimdor RP a well-needed boost. That's the most appealing idea to me.

Keeping that in mind however, along with the current state of the poll, I'm wondering how you people are looking at the option of the orcs tolerating or accepting these two races in on certain events, at the least. As in, give them an IC chance to travel along with us for events, should there be any interest in that at all? They could still be a part of their own guild, though would get calendar invites and information on where to find us at what time for some additional RP. Would this still breach our exclusivity and thus not be worth a try, or would it be a nice option to at least offer outsiders a glimpse of our more inner circle?

Don't we already allow that? :)

Probably in a more active form. As in, inviting people to it openly, ICly. So far, that's only been really done with the Kosh'hargs and a few small campaigns in conjunction with the guilds we used to be allied with, I guess.

I like that orcs of the red blade is, as the name state, exclusively for orcs. One thing I've always mourned is, however, the low interaction between the races/guilds. I think the idea of inviting others to events, and perhaps hosting more open stuff that's not necessarily tied to kosh'hargs or markets could be a very good idea. That way we perhaps get some closer kind of RP without immediately going through any painful complete overhaul of our guild concept. If there would be enough interest in this from trolls and tauren I'd consider creating a kind of sister guild or such.

Seems like a fun idea.

Well, speaking of a technical term, Orc of the Red Blade is a Chiefdom Tribe, thus joining it is just subjective to the Chife?
While a Clan is more "born in to" then other social groups?

Thus I suggest this: You (the Chife, big buy, the guy with the wolf, I mean great Shrewd) Gather up the nobels (High ranked), possibly Commoners (lower rank) and have a good ol' fasion political talk. After all, that is what a chife does best

"Hear the sound of the others, find peace in minde and see beyond small scrabbel of the Common orc. Find the path that is right, becouse itself is right. Not becouse others whould deem it right. As chiftain, finding the true path that leads your Tribe to greater power, living and understand is your dudy, one of many. Find the path that whould lead to the survival of the Tribe, find balance in change and tradition and move on."

*Pat Kozgugore on the shoulder and wait for the wind to take him back*
"Just a frindly... tip, we say"

I thought a chieftain dictates everything and whoever doesn't like it can eat his axe!

Oh wait, that's our beloved Warchief. ;D

Hehehehe, Gnash XD

This whole thread upsets me greatly but... I'll be good and try not to over react.

The idea of inviting Tauren and Trolls, as part of a separate guild, is one I love! More guild interaction would be wonderful, and inviting them along to many of our events would not only strengthen ties but lead to some interesting, fun and enjoyable RP. Plus, it would knit the community closer together!

The trouble is, people want to be part of a high ranked guild, for the perks and what not, and it's understandable (all right, I don't understand it, but friends have assured me this is the case even though I think they're nuts). A sister guild may fall flat on it's face.

HOWEVER!!! The bonus of being a sister guild would be that the main guildies would be there to help! Areans, BG's, rBG's, Instances, Raids - given time we could get the sister guild up to a fairly high level and by then there would be reputation enough for it to keep itself going! =) Or so I have convinced myself.

This does mean we'll all have to work at it (as a guild and as individuals) and I, for one, would be willing to part with more time to help out! The rewards would be wonderful!

So:

Yay: for sister guild!!! Nay: for joining.

I didn't mean to offend or annoy anyone with this topic, so my apologies if I have. This topic is merely meant for the sake of discussion. As mentioned in the main post, it has thus far never been a realistic option to choose from. I was just interested in hearing what others had  to say, and to see if there is anything that needs to be done in regards to any other races.

Quote from: Morgeth on December 31, 2011, 08:21:52 AM
I like that orcs of the red blade is, as the name state, exclusively for orcs. One thing I've always mourned is, however, the low interaction between the races/guilds. I think the idea of inviting others to events, and perhaps hosting more open stuff that's not necessarily tied to kosh'hargs or markets could be a very good idea. That way we perhaps get some closer kind of RP without immediately going through any painful complete overhaul of our guild concept. If there would be enough interest in this from trolls and tauren I'd consider creating a kind of sister guild or such.

On balance, this is probably the best idea in the short term (by which I mean the next twelve months or so). Doing so would keep OotRB fundamentally -orcish- whilst allowing orcs RP opportunities with their troll/tauren bretheren.

I do think that IC interaction between the various guilds is something rather lacking, and something that should be worked towards after our brave orcs return from their adventures in Northrend. For instance, Marrickus has restarted tavern RP at the Wyvern's Tail on his orc alt; should it last, holding a tavern night would probably be a nice alternative to Razor Hill campfire nights when the orcs are in Durotar between RP focuses.

Returning to the topic, however - I've outlined my reasons why integrating the orcs, trolls and tauren just makes sense. Establishing a sister guild but inviting it to our events is a very sensible halfway option to retain our orcish niche whilst exploring the options of further establishing Kalimdor RP.

I'd easily amend my vote to a close-knit sister guild, but the reasons for having a limited poll are clear and obvious, considering how abstract and hypothetical the topic is at this current stage.

Hmm, well this is where my Panda guild idea can help out if the OotRB doesn't do the whole other races in it... essentially, I would have my pandaren guild work closely with the more powerful guilds within the Horde, which should help bring more RP into Kalimdor. http://www.defiasrp.com/t4235-pandaren-tauren-orderpossible (http://www.defiasrp.com/t4235-pandaren-tauren-orderpossible)

Just want to give this as an option if the Red Blade decides not to allow other races into the Red Blade.. /shrug

Right, I understand a lot of people would prefer the safer route of letting trolls and tauren come along to our events. I still want to elaborate on the other option, though, to try and show the good sides of allowing trolls and tauren in the guild. Mind you, this is all hypothetically so please do not get upset or anything.




Trolls and tauren have little reason to join a tribe of orcs. It makes little sense because they do not share most customs and culture. An alternative to this would be a union of tribes. The orc tribe would naturally be the Red Blade tribe. Let's call the tauren tribe the Cloudmane tribe, and since the Darkspear tribe being quite, we can simply call the troll tribe that.

So now we have:

• the Red Blade tribe
• the Cloudmane tribe
• the Darkspear tribe

Each tribe would need its own ranks to make it plausible. Below I've comprised a small list of changes to these ranks. The actual ranks can easily be added in player notes to keep the guildtab clean. The colors I've used above will indicate which ranks is for which tribe to try and keep it understandable. Naturally one can argue about the names of the ranks, but keep in mind this is all just hypothetical pondering so it's unnecessary to get in too much detail.

New Blood
The same for each tribe.

Warrior
[Nag'ogar] [Longrunner] [Headhunter]
Veteran
[Rrosh-tul] [Brave] [Primal]

Spiritual
[Gosh'kar] [Seer] [Soothsayer]
Elder
[Thur'ruk] [Elder Seer] [Witch-Doctor]

Special
[Varog'gor] [Spirit Champion] [Shadow Hunter]

Tribe Leader
[Chieftain] [Chieftain] [Prime Shadow Hunter]




Warbands are something I have personally always wanted to see implemented. Basically it entails that members of the warrior caste in each tribe must form warbands. Warbands can be best described as mini-regiments. Every warband picks its own members, outfit and name and may not consist of more than five warriors (one of them being a veteran and leader).

So for instance, an orc warband earns the name The Red Dogs for being known to act vicious and dishonorable in battle. Together they decide that all their members must wear Savage Saronite Pauldrons (http://www.wowhead.com/item=41351#.) to indicate they are part of the same warband. Every orc that wants to join The Red Dogs must endure a specific trial that its members have come up with to prove his or her merit.

In short, warbands are self-sufficient role-playing groups in which their is room for creativity from individual members. If you don't like a warband, you can simply leave it and join another. Moreover, warbands would be ideal to keep role-playing in your own race's tribe flowing. Which warband a warrior is a part of can written down in the officer notes.

Some examples of names for warbands:

• The Red Dogs
• The Band of Stronghand ( teehee )
• The Plainstriders
• The Sons of Mu'sha
• Shango's Spears
• Bethekk's Berserkers

We've taken care of the warrior side of things, now let's talk about shamans and other dress-wearing scum. Since the nature of role-play of spiritual characters is quite different from your average warmongering buffoon, we could integrate the concept of a 'shaman circle' into the tribes. It would be cross-racial, all the members of the spiritual castes would have to contribute to it.

Unlike the warbands, this circle would have a political aspect to it. Chieftains would be honorary members of the circle and together with the elders they could decide what courses of action to take and on which matters to focus. Elders would need to deliberate and try to convince the leaders of the tribes.

Apart from that, the spiritual caste would organize some kind of masses for their own race, and organize cross-racial role-playing events like celebrating a solstice, midsummer or midwinter. Lastly, they would need to train shamans and other gown-wearing pansies to become one of them.

Like the Earthen Ring, a goal of greater importance would be a good way to bind together this circle. Needing to mend the elemental rifts in Horde territories that have been caused by Deathwing and the Twilight's Hammer for instance...?

-----

One final note: this is all just hypothetical and has only illustrative purposes. Speaking of illustrations, what do you think of the banners I've squeezed in here? I had been mucking about in Photoshop and wanted to show off. ;D

Gnash's proposal would better suit an alliance of guilds rather than a single guild, personally.  Squishing three whole tribes, eighteen ranks and multiple warbands under ONE guild tag is a recipe for calamity.

-If- we were to accommodate trolls and tauren, it would be better to incorporate them under the existing Red Blade lore and concept rather than diluting the guild's backstory and concept.

Nonetheless, on balance, I feel it would be better to form an IC alliance of different guild tags rather than forming a single indistinct homogenous entity.

No offense, Gnash, but a single lumped-together guild called 'The Tribes' doesn't sound nearly as interesting as three distinct guilds that could collaborate together on events.

None taken. It's just that no new guild can grow in today's fucked up system. Sadly, people care about guild perks and therefor getting anybody to join a new guild is generally harder than making an elephant disappear in a crowded theater. Granted, the concept I've sketched above is not a role-playing guild in the traditional sense. It's more of a role-playing community united under a single guild tag. Is it the best option? Probably not. Is it a viable alternative? Maybe. Are the banners fancy? Quite fancy.

PS. <The Tribes> sounds lame. ;D

EDIT: and ask yourself this question -- where are those other guilds we can collaborate with now? The only guild I can think of we can collaborate with is the Blackblood Clan, and the Red Blades and the Blackbloods aren't exactly as thick as thieves. Moreover, I think creating a sister guild will not be succesful either. I've already adressed the fact that no new guild can succeed, but apart from that why would a tauren or troll role-player join a RP guild in which all the strings are pulled by orcs? Frankly, I'd think twice before joining a guild that serves as coming as extras to orc-lead events. The difference is the measure of equality.

And finally, I know I'm probably breaking a huuuge taboo here but I've got to say it anyway: If you fear that allowing trolls and tauren will water down the concept, perhaps we should change the concept then.

Man, I feel dirty for writing that down...

Quote from: Gnash on January 03, 2012, 01:57:24 AM
And finally, I know I'm probably breaking a huuuge taboo here but I've got to say it anyway: If you fear that allowing trolls and tauren will water down the concept, perhaps we should change the concept then.

Man, I feel dirty for writing that down...

But there's nothing wrong with the Red Blade concept - nothing to justify completely abandoning six years of backstory and guild lore. There's nothing wrong with change, but change for its own sake is pointless.

But eh.

I can agree with that. If you want an entirely new structure, you might as well start a new guild altogether. I don't think there's anything wrong with the Red Blade as it currently is though. What I do think something is wrong with, is the Horde community here. It's become far too quiet for its own good.

That's why an initiative like this might work out. Truth be told, if it wasn't for this very guild, I would have -long- since moved on to a server like Argent Dawn, myself. The guild is keeping me here however, because I probably can't force an entire guild to migrate, nor do I want to abandon the guild. I still very much enjoy my time in it.

Gnash's concept is sound, though it would indeed be a lot of hassle to sort it all out. There's nothing wrong with the Red Blade past, and ought to be used to our advantage, should we ever choose to walk this kind of road. I was, at least, thinking of giving every race the same rank, only with their own terms included into their guild notes, as Gnash described. Having said that though, I do think it's best to have a united tribe instead of three different ones. It would make for some more cohesion that way anyway.

I've been sad because there is very little out of guild interaction. And funnily enough all of the remaining major RP guilds out there. Have little reason to be friendly* with one another, or they just just dont like us because of their own unique view of the world (IC:ly). Unfortunately (and maybe fortunately for us) the orcs on kalimdor side are the most roleplayed races, propably because of The Tribe itself, not far fetched when i say that i think. Most Tauren/Troll/goblin RP guilds die because of lack of activity, people get bored and the landslide of failure builds up. Like Koz said it's thanks to the activity and the people in this guild i still remain on this server/game.

Making the guild multiracial might make some people (sorry to say) rage because a lot joined the tribe because of the fact that it's orc only, and not only because it offers a lot of RP for them. After some thinking im changing my "yes" vote to "No" since there is no middle option. However eventhough i've gone horribly offtopic, i would be all in for the idea of trying to boost up tauren/troll/..goblin roleplaying with our tribe. Even if it ment making another "Iron Collar" type alliance. But one that isnt just once a month meeting of sorts. However there are cons to that, the immerse stress on officers on having guild only events and in addition to them, events with the other guilds. For now all we can do is to help out any starting roleplaying guilds and maybe get in touch more with the current ones a little more, but there is always the IC question, and it's an important one.






*Aka actually -want- to just hang around and work together, with no expectations of material or any sort of self-only gain (think Forsaken).

I'l keep my opinion short and sweet.

Form a sister guild for other races, make it subservient to the same chieftien. The Main guild and the orcs are a tribe, but with our new allies all together, we could finnaly take up the name "Clan".

Lastly, we shouldn't underestimate an effect I like to call the bandwagon effect.

New guilds have few members, which in turn discourages people from joining. People desire companionship and having a lot of people online at the same time is essential for that. A guild like ORB which is established and has a bigger player base, benefits from the opposite, because it is more succesful people are inclined to 'jump on the bandwagon' -- meaning they want to coast on a succesful guild rather than one that still has to prove its merit. I'm not saying that it's impossible for a sister guild to work, but I just think it's highly unlikely to succeed.

Short post, at work!

Yes, a sister guild would have to prove itself - which all depends on the players and their devotion to forcing it to spring from the ashes. We have ./.redorc and as such there IS a way for the guilds to always talk, have friends and interact OOC. It's a nice little community! =)

The trouble I can see about letting in none-orcs is this: putting all Tauren/ Orc/ Troll RPers in one basket might be a bad idea. I always thought we should be encouraging more guilds to form, strengthening the community rather than gathering up the strays. Perhaps gathering up the stays will cause them to create their own guild later along the line, perhaps not.

Of course, there are fewer RPers, and as such we're a dying breed on Defias B.Hood in comparison to the numbers of none-RPers (or so it has seemed to me). Is it time for us to admit defeat and move servers? Why spread ourselves thin when we can go elsewhere where there are more of our kind? <- these questions are ones that I have asked myself many times and only stayed on Defias B.Hood because of OotRB.

The trouble with gathering all Tauren, orcs and trolls into one guild is that there will be even -less- guild interaction as... there would only be one guild.

Still, there is one thing we all seem to be agreeing on: Horde RP is -very- quiet and something needs to give.

Quote from: Mazguul on January 03, 2012, 03:24:31 PM
Of course, there are fewer RPers, and as such we're a dying breed on Defias B.Hood in comparison to the numbers of none-RPers (or so it has seemed to me). Is it time for us to admit defeat and move servers? Why spread ourselves thin when we can go elsewhere where there are more of our kind? <- these questions are ones that I have asked myself many times and only stayed on Defias B.Hood because of OotRB.

The trouble with gathering all Tauren, orcs and trolls into one guild is that there will be even -less- guild interaction as... there would only be one guild.

Still, there is one thing we all seem to be agreeing on: Horde RP is -very- quiet and something needs to give.

At this rate, perhaps a better question would be "Should we stay on DB and try to CPR the remainder of the Horde RP community here, or move on to a more populated Horde server?". *cackle* I won't deny it, I've considered the possibility before, but moving an entire guild (and forcing other people to choose as such) might be a bit of a radical decision. Whereas I would have little trouble moving, I reckon there are other people out there who still have friends or such on this server outside of the guild.

Like I stated before, I'd be more interested in a broad guild in which we can house the whole lot of goblins, trolls and tauren that are willing and able to role-play. Role-playing guilds in it current form are hard to hold together and I get the impression that ORB is the only guild succeeding in that regard, simply because of the great devotion our members have to role-playing like bawsses.

Yeah, we'd have to let go of our concept as it currently is -- but I really don't think this is change for the sake of change as people above me have stated. We could make a difference if we try, I am sure of it. Just look at all the great events our officers come up with on a monthly basis. No other guild can top that. So why not let go of the concept and keep it in our background story while coming up with something a bit more managable for more types of role-players? Race-specific role-playing guilds were a great idea in the glory days of DB, but we have to accept that we've ran into a turning point some time ago. Activity is reduced, and we need a change some way or the other.

And, seeing Kozgugore's last post just now -- I have to agree this all sounds mad and indeed a bit like trying to pump water out of a ship that's already sunk. Perhaps it would be best to move away and just try again in a different community. I don't think we can count on the other RP guilds in this matter anyway.

The thing with moving is it costs a great deal of money to do so. Granted £20 Uk aint much for me but for other people who might not have stable income its not fair to ask them to move and be left behind i feel THAT would kill all guild rep we have and make us look like a group of dicks who dont think about there members. That is how I see it. Also for all them uni studants who dont have the money or can spare it due to needing to live i feel it would be a very bad idea OOCly however there are many questions we must ask ICly.

If we move how can we simply force our lore into the new severs? Where we there all the time just no one noticed us? I feel we would get alot of problems from the people on the other server for that and they would avoid us due to it. Sorry to say this but DB is my home in wow and if a move does go ahead thats me for red blades unfortunatly. I  would not follow. Sorry to say but i would not think it right to move and leave the members who dont have stable income.

It's all just theorycraft so far, obviously. I have kept in mind these kind of things, and costs would obviously be kept into account, and everyone would be asked if they would agree and/or be able to. I very much doubt an idea like this would go through if more than, say, even 20% of the memberbase would disagree with the whole notion, as we're not planning on forcing anyone. In that regard, I don't see how it's disrespectful or would kill all the reputation the tribe has as an RP guild. Le alone go as far as to call us dicks. I've seen other (big) RP guilds move house before, and they did just fine.

As for transferring our lore to another server, I don't see any problem there. The tribe has never assumed any official positions within the Horde structure. It's an independent organisation within the Horde, and has acted individually as such. Sure, there have been campaigns and wars that haven't occurred on the other server, but we don't have to force those things down other people's throats. That RP can be ours at first, and as time passes and, depending on whether people accept us or not, we can slowly start to integrate small pieces of our more specific history, if even necessary at all. I mean, I don't see us confronting other RPers from outside the guild with events that happened exclusively on this server in the past.

Still, I can't help but agree with Gnash' view on how the server feels like a bit of a sunken ship. Sure, it's had its quiet times before, but it grows increasingly hard to find any guilds we can do something with to begin with. Even rival guilds, of the more dark Horde-sided point of view, are starting to die away here and there.

I Remain dubious as to if changing server would much improve the RP Quality or quantity, i for one am never leaving DB.... but we seem to of de-railed a litt,e

I suppose the options are really just simple... Either make the current guild multi-racial and call it "clan red blade" ... if you can infact re-name a guild. or make a sister guild.

And as for RP on DB? its been Seven years All games go on the down in the end, but my honest opinion remains that people have just gotten lazy and unimaginative.

Yes, still here. Hiding in shadows!

I haven't voted, since I'm neither fully for or fully against.
Both have merits. And bringing more tribalish shamanistic RP to the server is never a bad thing. More so since Kalimdor needs a boost.

Still, if the guild itself changes it should't be a 360 into inviting them. Should be a slow process of the tribe expanding to more than orcs. Picking up 2-3 induviduals to start with would most likely go smoother for all orcs involved. Slowly opening up as a flower to the sun.

The sister guild idea is a far simpler one to do. If it weren't for the horrid guild perks that make people don't want a fresh guild. In hindsight one of Blizzards worst implemented ideas.

But one thing mentioned here I think everone can agree on. Letting Darkspear Trolls and Tauren join in events. Maybe even the Tribemeetings (For the information if nothing else). As this will bind the kalimdor horde closer together.

Just some thinking, I know it's rare from me!

NO

ORCS of the Red Blade.
The title says it all!
Not any one who wishes to be an Orc of the Red Blade Tribe.

But then again `Tribes of the Red Blades' sounds nice as a sister group.

And now that you have opened our doors, how will we get them on our forums? Is it an application aswell?

They're not joining the guild, of course. But I'm not sure about forum access o_o